Jesus' Wife?

[Berkut]

Thanks for that insightful contribution.

Hey, you asked. 

Sorry, that was meant to be in response to Beebs post above where he was kind enough to go into a careful analysis of whether more than 0.1% of Christians are really Christian or something. He is always good at really driving to what is important in a discussion when his personal attacks and strawmen get destroyed.

[HVC]

I was raised Catholic and I never thought of needed to believe in the divinity of Christ was need to be considered Christian, just the belief in his teaching. Sure to be Catholic you had to believe in his divinity because of the whole nicene creed thing.

But then again I'm an atheist now so what do I know.

[Berkut]

I was raised Catholic and I never thought of needed to believe in the divinity of Christ was need to be considered Christian, just the belief in his teaching.

Which part of his teaching?

Can you elect to not believe in the part where he said he was the Son of God, and performed miracles and rose from the dead and still be Christian?

If so...then does that make me Christian?

[HVC]

I was raised Catholic and I never thought of needed to believe in the divinity of Christ was need to be considered Christian, just the belief in his teaching.

Which part of his teaching?

Can you elect to not believe in the part where he said he was the Son of God, and performed miracles and rose from the dead and still be Christian?

If so...then does that make me Christian?

most literalist Protestants ignore the love your neighbour and turn your other cheek teachings and prefer the old testement eye for an eye and gays are evil teachings.  Are they not chritians because they ignore part of Jesus' teachings? All Christian denominations ignore the parts of the bible (even the new testement) that doesn't go with the things they want to believe in.  Does that mean, in your view, that no one is A christian?

[HVC]

Vlamy, do Unitarians use a normal bible, or do they go the Mormon route of using a heavenly modified bible? Once you go that route then I think the common belief structure can be changed enough that I wouldn't consider a Unitarian a Christian.

[alfred russel]

I was raised Catholic and I never thought of needed to believe in the divinity of Christ was need to be considered Christian, just the belief in his teaching. Sure to be Catholic you had to believe in his divinity because of the whole nicene creed thing.

But then again I'm an atheist now so what do I know.

I think Berkut takes a very narrow view toward what religious identity means to people. A lot of people aren't deeply contemplating the nuances of their faith's theology. They were just born into that faith and it is their religious team, sort of like of they were born into a family of Packers or Redskins fans.

[Caliga]

I do not see why to be considered Christian you must abide by strict Trinitarian Orthodoxy. Indeed if that was the case why would there even be a term 'Trinitarian'? It would just be Christianity.

Well, since you're not UU and I know nothing about Unity then most of my post does not apply to you.  Sorry to make assumptions about your faith dude.

That said, while Unitarians historically were noted for their rejection of the Trinity, and I think you can easily argue that Unitarian Christians are still Christian, the modern UUA takes it further and does not mandate that you believe in the divinity of Jesus... or really any aspect of Christianity at all, for that matter.  For me, that makes the UUA decidedly non-Christian.  I don't personally think that someone who rejects the divinity of Jesus can in any way, shape, or form be considered a Christian.  If so, then why can't we call the Jews Christians too?

[Malthus]

most literalist Protestants ignore the love your neighbour and turn your other cheek teachings and prefer the old testement eye for an eye and gays are evil teachings.  Are they not chritians because they ignore part of Jesus' teachings? All Christian denominations ignore the parts of the bible (even the new testement) that doesn't go with the things they want to believe in.  Does that mean, in your view, that no one is A christian?

There are hardly any Christians in a courtroom. Every litigant I have ever met ignores this part:

Matthew 5:40

40 if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well;

I'm here to tell you that hardly ever happens. 

[Caliga]

Vlamy, do Unitarians use a normal bible, or do they go the Mormon route of using a heavenly modified bible? Once you go that route then I think the common belief structure can be changed enough that I wouldn't consider a Unitarian a Christian.

Unitarians do not use a Bible at all, except perhaps as a reference.  When you attend a UU church, in the pews you will find (I forget what they call it) a book with hymns and prayers from all sorts of different religious traditions.  To the best of my recollection, the majority of them are Christian in origin but there are also Jewish, Buddhist, and Muslim prayers and hymns (translated to English) included.

[Berkut]

I was raised Catholic and I never thought of needed to believe in the divinity of Christ was need to be considered Christian, just the belief in his teaching.

Which part of his teaching?

Can you elect to not believe in the part where he said he was the Son of God, and performed miracles and rose from the dead and still be Christian?

If so...then does that make me Christian?

most literalist Protestants ignore the love your neighbour and turn your other cheek teachings and prefer the old testement eye for an eye and gays are evil teachings.  Are they not chritians because they ignore part of Jesus' teachings? All Christian denominations ignore the parts of the bible (even the new testement) that doesn't go with the things they want to believe in.  Does that mean, in your view, that no one is A christian?

I don't think literalist Protestantsignore those things, they simply fail at executing on them. My experience is that they would all say that You absolutely should love your neighbor, even if they don't always do so.

They would not say, however, that they don't think it was the message of Christianity to love your neighbor.

But where are going with this? Is the fact that Christians have a wide sivergence on what they think Christianity is reason to just presume that the word means literally nothing? That there is ZERO informative value to the term "I am Christian"?

Can I be Christian if I don't believe that Christ ever existed, or if I believe he was wrong about everything he preached about?

The argument here seems to be the case, that you are a Christian if you say you are a Christian, no matter what you actually believe - in other words, the word has zero meaning outside yourself.

Obviously, as I've stated, within yourself it doesn't really matter what label you give your own beliefs.

[Barrister]

I was raised Catholic and I never thought of needed to believe in the divinity of Christ was need to be considered Christian, just the belief in his teaching.

Which part of his teaching?

Can you elect to not believe in the part where he said he was the Son of God, and performed miracles and rose from the dead and still be Christian?

If so...then does that make me Christian?

That would be the portion of his teaching where he establishes the Roman Catholic Church (at the RCC, not you Berkie).

[HVC]

Can I be Christian if I don't believe that Christ ever existed, or if I believe he was wrong about everything he preached about?

we have very different understanding of the meaning of "belief in his teaching" if you equate that with believing everything he said was wrong.

[Berkut]

I was raised Catholic and I never thought of needed to believe in the divinity of Christ was need to be considered Christian, just the belief in his teaching. Sure to be Catholic you had to believe in his divinity because of the whole nicene creed thing.

But then again I'm an atheist now so what do I know.

I think Berkut takes a very narrow view toward what religious identity means to people. A lot of people aren't deeply contemplating the nuances of their faith's theology. They were just born into that faith and it is their religious team, sort of like of they were born into a family of Packers or Redskins fans.

I think that is basically true, and I come from a family that certainly fits that mold in a few cases.

But still, if you asked them, even if they haven't been to church in a decade, they would still say they believe in the core "Christian" beliefs, at least insofar as the remember them from sunday school or bible camp or wherever. Jesus was the divine son of god sent to earth as the savior of mankind.

[Berkut]

Can I be Christian if I don't believe that Christ ever existed, or if I believe he was wrong about everything he preached about?

we have very different understanding of the meaning of "belief in his teaching" if you equate that with believing everything he said was wrong.

That is the point.

So you are comfortable saying that someone who claims to be Christian is not actually Christian if they say they do NOT believe in his teachings?

[HVC]

Vlamy, do Unitarians use a normal bible, or do they go the Mormon route of using a heavenly modified bible? Once you go that route then I think the common belief structure can be changed enough that I wouldn't consider a Unitarian a Christian.

Unitarians do not use a Bible at all, except perhaps as a reference.  When you attend a UU church, in the pews you will find (I forget what they call it) a book with hymns and prayers from all sorts of different religious traditions.  To the best of my recollection, the majority of them are Christian in origin but there are also Jewish, Buddhist, and Muslim prayers and hymns (translated to English) included.

ok if that is the case then I believe that their belief structure is different enough from other Christians to not classify Unitarians as Christians. if they don't follow the bible nor believe in jesus as a person, from what Cal said in this other post, then I wouldn't classify sometone as a Christian.