Mass killing in Orlando gay nightclub

[Martinus]

WTF, how does a guy like this who is already on the watchlist slip through the cracks.

You know how? Because people are afraid to report something like that to the authorities lest they are accused of islamophobia. Remember garbon and his ilk screaming their face off about islamophobia and racism when a fellow passenger reported that Muslim guy on a plane? The flip side of this approach is this - sure, maybe 50+ people are dead, but at least noone was inconvenienced on their flight or at their workplace.

[DGuller]

While I think there's valid concerns about our gun laws, and have long advocated for stricter ones, the reality is that someone who is an ISIS sympathizer and hell bent on shooting a place up will almost certainly be able to do so regardless of gun laws. Look at the Paris attackers--they simply acquired guns through the black market. There's no magic secret about how to do that.

Now, I do think for the "mentally unstable white guy" type of attack, stricter gun laws would be a big impediment. I have a hard time imagining guys like Adam Lanza, James Holmes, or Jared Loughner being able to navigate the black market and find an illegal arms dealer. But that isn't really the situation here. This guy wasn't some mentally ill white boy afraid to leave his Mom's basement (except for target practice and shooting people time), I think even with strict gun laws he'd have gotten his weapons. When you can get actual automatic weapons  (which are legitimately fucking hard to get in the United States) into Paris, in a country with far stricter gun laws than the United States, the reality is motivated bad people can get guns just about anywhere. Of course interestingly one of the most famous mass shootings--Columbine, did involve some illegally acquired guns (they bought their guns from two different friends who were old enough to buy guns legally.)

It may be true that potential attackers could get their AR-15 on the black market anyway, if they can't get it legally, but it's an additional risk factor that get the perpetrator caught or flagged.  I imagine that there would be quite a few undercover FBI agents selling their wares on the black market, or monitoring the legit scum that does.  It's obviously no guarantee, but successful attacks always make bigger news than failed attacks (especially when the cops may not even realize just what it is that they prevented).

[Barrister]

Goddammit.

Fifty fucking people are murdered in cold blood (and even more people seriously injured), and everyone treats it like a fucking Rorshach test - they see what they want.  The left complains about gun control, the right complains about islam.

Can't we just mourn all these deaths?  Can't we agree this was an attack motivated by BOTH radical islam and homophobia?

I replied to something Raz said flippantly, but I think is true.  Today we are all gay nightclub partiers.  Not because it is literally true - but today we stand with those who didn't deserve to die just because they fancy other men and went to a place to meet people with a similar outlook on life.

You know... I didn't support gay marriage 10 years ago, and even now I'm not convinced that was a good move for our society to take.  But even so... I weep for people to be murdered in cold blood because they are attracted to the same sex.  What the fuck is wrong with people?

[Martinus]

How many people were killed in mass shootings in the US over the last 15 years, and how many people were killed by Islamists in the US over the last 15 years (including 911)?

Let's compare the numbers and then consider whether we should restrict people's access to guns or to Islam.

[Martinus]

Can't we agree this was an attack motivated by BOTH radical islam and homophobia?

I think everybody who is non-left agrees with that. It's just the left that is trying to white wash this by refusing to mention Islam.

For the record, I understand (but it may be misreported) that Obama has not even mentioned that the attack was homophobic either - it was just about guns for him.

You know... I didn't support gay marriage 10 years ago, and even now I'm not convinced that was a good move for our society to take.  But even so... I weep for people to be murdered in cold blood because they are attracted to the same sex.  What the fuck is wrong with people?

And now you care for gays? garbon will tell you you're a hypocrite. You can't be a conservative and care for gay people being murdered.

[Razgovory]

Not surprised to see Languish attacking the right, as if they were the actual villains here.

Which right?  People like Martinus or the religiously conservative homophobe?

[Jaron]

Martinus sure loves his blanket statements.

Apparently the entire left is responsible for not acknowledging Islam for the attacks and he's also happy to throw responsibility for this on all Muslims. But that's pretty standard for a Breitbarter.

I saw comments today on Breitbart calling for patriotic Americans to burn mosques down. This is the kind of person Martinus has allied himself with politically.

[DGuller]

Can't we just mourn all these deaths?

Preaching about mourning people you don't know sounds like an empty platitude, not to mention a delaying tactic.

[viper37]

Let's compare the numbers and then consider whether we should restrict people's access to guns or to Islam.

that's easy.  Number wise, guns kills more people than islam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

[Barrister]

Can't we just mourn all these deaths?

Preaching about mourning people you don't know sounds like an empty platitude, not to mention a delaying tactic.

FFS

[MadImmortalMan]

Isn't it a bit of a stretch to say that Marty has joined the "right"? Unless I've missed something huge. 

[Barrister]

Isn't it a bit of a stretch to say that Marty has joined the "right"? Unless I've missed something huge. 

Based on his own words, that seems to be how he self-identifies...

[11B4V]

Here we go

[Jaron]

By the measurement Martinus asked for mass shootings vs Islamic attacks...

You don't need to research past 9/11. That one day alone counters every mass shooting for 15 years. If you include all gun violence its a different story I'm sure.

[viper37]

By the measurement Martinus asked for mass shootings vs Islamic attacks...

You don't need to research past 9/11. That one day alone counters every mass shooting for 15 years. If you include all gun violence its a different story I'm sure.

According to the FBI, in 2012, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 6,371 of those attributed to handguns.[8] The Centers for Disease Control reports that there were 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the U.S. in 2010.[10] The FBI breaks down the gun-related homicides in 2010 by weapon: 6,009 involved a handgun, 358 involved a rifle, and 1,939 involved an unspecified type of firearm.[11] In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the U.S. were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with unspecified firearms.[34]

While motor-vehicle deaths dropped 22 percent from 2005 to 2010, gun fatalities are rising again after a low point in 2000, according to the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Shooting deaths in 2015 will probably rise to almost 33,000, and those related to autos will decline to about 32,000, based on the 10-year average trend.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exceed-traffic-fatalities-by-2015

As for 9/11:
Deaths    2,996  (2,977 victims + 19 hijackers)
Non-fatal injuries    6,000+
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks#Damage

still more gun deaths per year than from terrorists in the US.  Even if they overlapp, 20, 50 deads, that's nothing in the 8-10 000 homicides by guns per year.

Really, if that's Martinus' argument, then let's restrict access to guns and promote access to Islam.