Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yes, I don't like the Labour party much but I'm old-fashioned enough to like a strong and principled opposition to the government. I really think the Labour party may expire in the coming months....................no idea what the new setup will be though 

[Valmy]

One NEC member apparently, according to Conor Pope of LabourList, said they want a split 'so we can get rid of the Blairites'.

Can the Brownites stay?

[Sheilbh]

Brown's a Blairite now. Much to his fury I imagine

Yes, I don't like the Labour party much but I'm old-fashioned enough to like a strong and principled opposition to the government. I really think the Labour party may expire in the coming months....................no idea what the new setup will be though 

Not a clue what could replace it.

And for all its issues over the years the Labour Party has been a great institution. It'd be very sad to see it die and that name and history be left in the hands of people like Corbyn

Edit: Thing is the split with the SDP was a catastrophe and I see no reason for a split now to be any different. But the PLP respected Foot, he was the unity candidate who could keep the party together which is a world away from Corbyn. if there were an election tomorrow and Labour took a deserved drubbing I've no doubt Corbyn's supporters would be saying it was because of the treacherous PLP dividing the party and if we just all united behind the leader we'd be on the sunny uplands in no time.

[Admiral Yi]

The obvious fix surely must be for a sufficient number of rank and file Blairite scum to pay their three quid and vote Corban/Corben/Corbyn out.

[Agelastus]

Yes, I don't like the Labour party much but I'm old-fashioned enough to like a strong and principled opposition to the government. I really think the Labour party may expire in the coming months....................no idea what the new setup will be though 

Well, the last split produced the Social Democratic Party that ended up merging with the Liberals to form the Liberal Democrats - and the Liberal Democrats are still in trouble so might be open to some recruitment...

So we might have a Liberal-Labour Democrat Party and a Labour (or Socialist Labour or True Labour etc.) Party.

I must admit I'm not sure if the Labour party was more determined to commit suicide now or back in 1983. I thought the issue of Europe was supposed to destroy the Tories, not serve as a trigger for a Labour meltdown (OK, the meltdown was coming anyway given Corbyn's election, but I don't think it would have been quite this dramatic without the Referendum.).

[Sheilbh]

They've upped the price to £25, so no more £3 Trots.

And there is a campaign (Saving Labour) to get people to do precisely that. But the problem is, as a rule, the political enthusiasts congregated on one wing or the other.

Plus there's the weird cult of personality stuff with Corbyn which I can't think of another example of in British politics. So in '81 Neil Kinnock announced he was abstaining in the Benn-Healey deputy leadership fight. He was a respected left-wing MP and many of his supporters either abstained or looked at the contest again. With Corbyn there are some real soft Left MPs who've called for him to go - but because they're MPs and because he's Corbyn they must be corrupt Blairites who've been lying about their view all this time.

Corbyn for them isn't just a leader they happen to agree with, he's the only honest man in politics

[Sheilbh]

Well, the last split produced the Social Democratic Party that ended up merging with the Liberals to form the Liberal Democrats - and the Liberal Democrats are still in trouble so might be open to some recruitment...

So we might have a Liberal-Labour Democrat Party and a Labour (or Socialist Labour or True Labour etc.) Party.

That's worrying. Though I agree I could see a split of the hard-left and a centrist, metropolitan, SDP-ish party. But the issue with that is which party is actually trying to represent or even care about the working class?

Neither of those parties, I think, actually achieves that which is surely what Labour's meant to be for.

I must admit I'm not sure if the Labour party was more determined to commit suicide now or back in 1983. I thought the issue of Europe was supposed to destroy the Tories, not serve as a trigger for a Labour meltdown (OK, the meltdown was coming anyway given Corbyn's election, but I don't think it would have been quite this dramatic without the Referendum.).

Now. Seriously. I've been rewatching the documentaries on Labour in the 80s and reading up on it again and I think this really is far more serious than the 80s. As I say Michael Foot was universally respected as a great Parliamentarian - and a man who'd been willing to sit in the cabinet and make difficult decisions and defend them in his own constituency. None of which is true for Corbyn.

Plus I think, in retrospect, that Healey would have split the party as much if not more. I think Foot was necessary to keep the soft left like Kinnock in place.

And the irony of the Tories uniting behind a leader apparently promising European style managed capitalism isn't lost on me

[Barrister]

Yes, I don't like the Labour party much but I'm old-fashioned enough to like a strong and principled opposition to the government. I really think the Labour party may expire in the coming months....................no idea what the new setup will be though 

  For some reason I had you down as blairite-labour voter (though much too polite to ever get too vocal in political threads).

If you don't mind me asking, what are your politics then?

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yes, I don't like the Labour party much but I'm old-fashioned enough to like a strong and principled opposition to the government. I really think the Labour party may expire in the coming months....................no idea what the new setup will be though 

  For some reason I had you down as blairite-labour voter (though much too polite to ever get too vocal in political threads).

If you don't mind me asking, what are your politics then?

Centrist with an interest in allowing as much personal liberty as is possible.

I usually vote Lib-Dem 

[Sheilbh]

The obvious fix surely must be for a sufficient number of rank and file Blairite scum to pay their three quid and vote Corban/Corben/Corbyn out.

Also apparently in addition to the new £25 fee it's a six month membership freeze. So that'll mean the Saving Labour types can't vote but neither can the Keep Corbynites.

I suppose it depends how many of his £3 Trots converted the membership, if not how many of the old Labour Party kept their membership and have they turned?

Edit: Actually it's very confusing. At this point it sounds like recent members can't vote, but registered supporters (eg. £25 people) can. As I say it's astonishing how Labour have managed to fuck this up at every single stage

Edit: And anyone can join an affiliated union and get a vote. So it's literally only new members of the Labour Party who can't

[The Brain]

I don't understand British politics at all.

[Barrister]

Yes, I don't like the Labour party much but I'm old-fashioned enough to like a strong and principled opposition to the government. I really think the Labour party may expire in the coming months....................no idea what the new setup will be though 

  For some reason I had you down as blairite-labour voter (though much too polite to ever get too vocal in political threads).

If you don't mind me asking, what are your politics then?

Centrist with an interest in allowing as much personal liberty as is possible.

I usually vote Lib-Dem 

That explains it - I knew you were no Tory.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I don't understand British politics at all.

I'm not sure anyone does at the moment 

[Zanza]

The development of Labour reminds me a lot of the German Social Democrats and Left Party. They dislike each other so much that a left of center majority seems impossible.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yes, I don't like the Labour party much but I'm old-fashioned enough to like a strong and principled opposition to the government. I really think the Labour party may expire in the coming months....................no idea what the new setup will be though 

  For some reason I had you down as blairite-labour voter (though much too polite to ever get too vocal in political threads).

If you don't mind me asking, what are your politics then?

Centrist with an interest in allowing as much personal liberty as is possible.

I usually vote Lib-Dem 

That explains it - I knew you were no Tory.

Much more interested in freedom than how the wealth is divvied out. Though it is important to note that without a certain amount of economic security there cannot be much in the way of freedom.