Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Richard Hakluyt]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't people who work in the UK qualify for a range of benefits as well?

Yes, they qualify for the same benefits as the natives (or did, part of Cameron's deal is a rather marginal reduction of this IIRC); they also pay the same taxes etc so this seems very reasonable to me.

[Admiral Yi]

Yes, they qualify for the same benefits as the natives (or did, part of Cameron's deal is a rather marginal reduction of this IIRC); they also pay the same taxes etc so this seems very reasonable to me.

I wasn't asking about foreigners vs. locals; I was asking about free money going to people with jobs as opposed to free money only going to loafers.

[Tamas]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't people who work in the UK qualify for a range of benefits as well?

Only if you earn ridiculously little

[Razgovory]

The benefit of open borders within the EU should be one of a robust labor market and eased business transactions, I do not think it desirable that it just serves as a way for poor Eastern Europeans to come to Britain and live off of British social welfare. The agreements in that regard need changed.

Is that even the case though? Do most (or even a significant amount) of EU immigrants come to Britain to live off benefits?

Well, there is Tamas.

[LaCroix]

the "they live off the system" argument has always seemed weak & full of paranoia. has it ever been proven true, or is it like the razor blades in halloween candy myth?

[Razgovory]

the "they live off the system" argument has always seemed weak & full of paranoia. has it ever been proven true, or is it like the razor blades in halloween candy myth?

Are you suggesting that millions of nativists could be wrong?

[LaCroix]

Are you suggesting that millions of nativists could be wrong?

people like to spread gossip and rumors. it's what keeps society (and people) in check, but it sometimes has weird consequences.

[Josquius]

the "they live off the system" argument has always seemed weak & full of paranoia. has it ever been proven true, or is it like the razor blades in halloween candy myth?

The media is always reporting those few cases where it is true. Makes it seem more of a problem than it is.

[Martinus]

Taken on its own, I wasn't too worried about a British exit from the EU, but now that Austria's drawing a line in the sand about border closings, there are some worrying rumblings.

Err, that's like comparing a tornado and a fart.

[LaCroix]

The media is always reporting those few cases where it is true. Makes it seem more of a problem than it is.

so, unlike the candy, it can be true. just highly over-reported? I wonder what an arab could actually do with seven children, a burka, and no job. some think prosper. is that really true?

[Martinus]

The benefit of open borders within the EU should be one of a robust labor market and eased business transactions, I do not think it desirable that it just serves as a way for poor Eastern Europeans to come to Britain and live off of British social welfare. The agreements in that regard need changed.

Is that even the case though? Do most (or even a significant amount) of EU immigrants come to Britain to live off benefits?

No. Since when has total ignorance of the subject prevented Otto from making assertive pronouncements about some subject, though?

[Martinus]

Free health care is a pretty nice benefit for those who need it.

Every EU member state has free healthcare. Even if NHS (for all the things it is maligned about) offers a higher standard of care than the free healthcare system in, say, Romania, it would be extremely unreasonable for anyone to migrate to the UK just to get the healthcare there because the costs of living are so wildly different. In fact, from what I understand, a lot of British pensioners actually migrate to countries like Spain in their dotage, because they get comparable free healthcare there, but the costs of living as significantly lower.

[Eddie Teach]

Every EU member state has free healthcare.

[Martinus]

The EU shouldn't be left, but I do think the concept of "greater European unity" has been proven both unwise and undesired by most countries. Britain should make sure that it isn't required to get any closer to the EU, and I think all EU countries should have greater control over migrants from outside the EU and how they decide to implement intra-EU migrants into their social welfare systems.

I think it's the opposite - the problem is "not enough integration", not "too much integration". Having a unified social welfare system across the EU and a common immigration policy for non-EU migrants and refugees would solve this problem.

[celedhring]

Free health care is a pretty nice benefit for those who need it.

Every EU member state has free healthcare. Even if NHS (for all the things it is maligned about) offers a higher standard of care than the free healthcare system in, say, Romania, it would be extremely unreasonable for anyone to migrate to the UK just to get the healthcare there because the costs of living are so wildly different. In fact, from what I understand, a lot of British pensioners actually migrate to countries like Spain in their dotage, because they get comparable free healthcare there, but the costs of living as significantly lower.

Before the recession (and its spending cuts), our public health care system was better than the NHS. It was one of the best in the world, actually. It's still pretty good despite the cuts.

"Health care tourism" from eastern Europe and such was used by right wing scaremongers to limit access to health care to foreigners (including EU nationals) during the recession too.