Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

I signed up for their list with a fake name and non primary email address. Just to see what the crack is.

As said Corbyn is a big negative for me and I suspect also for their chances of drawing away reform voters. Most of their voters will come from Labour.
The same thing but without Corbyn and it would be better. But also lacking the media attention so... Yeah.

[Tamas]

The government is standing behind this ridiculous and potentially oppressive online safety act, citing the protection of children like I am listening to Orbán's government, and the main far right party vows to repeal it. What a messed up world.

[Sheilbh]

It's really, really bad law - and I posted about it before that it's really difficult to oppose. We saw that this morning with Farage having called for its repeal being accused of siding with "predators" and "extreme pornographers" instead of children. Also reports that among a 1,000%+ increase in VPN use, the government is now considering banning VPNs - which I think, in Europe, would only put us in the company of Belarus and Russia.

It's really bad law but it has been difficult to oppose, in part because not just a "protect the children" sense but it became a Christmas tree piece of legislation where every campaign (often very worthy and really sympathetic) got a specific provision. So there's stuff that age-gating of porn, cyber-bullying, promotion of eating disorder or suicide promoting content, hate speech etc - all of which is really bad and may be justifiable. But has just been put in this omnibus bill which gives a huge amount of power to American tech companies to decide what content is or isn't "harmful" (not, you'll note, whether or not it's legal).

It's really bad for free speech, it entrenches platform power and corporate discretion instead of the state just applying the law we already have. But arguing against is tough because you have grieving parents, and the NSPCC etc arrayed against you.

[Josquius]

Farages comments are tricky though because as bad as this bill might be, he in general is 100% against kids and on the side of predators.

Banning vpns is a non starter, that would be insane. Lots of businesses, including the civil service, use them for standard work. They're a vital part of security.

[Sheilbh]

I'd just add this is another area where there's a very weird clash with the government reducing the voting age to 16, because under the OSA (and Age Appropriate Design Code) the key age is 18 and under 18s are considered children with a heightened duty of care/appropriateness.

So it'll be weird that the British state's position will be that while they'd be able to vote on the same issues, it's not safe/appropriate for 16 year olds to have access to the same content as 18 year olds.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

ah yes, 'think of the children'. The ever efficient go-to for governments to increase control over their subjects. Amount of children actually thought of: 0. Like the kids in the grooming gangs: no thoughts spent on them either.

I expect this nonsens to be rolled out over the rest of the increasingly not so free world at some point in the not too distant future. Because that's the trajectory we're on, and have been on for decades now.

'Sic semper tyrannis' though, hopefully.

[crazy canuck]

I'd just add this is another area where there's a very weird clash with the government reducing the voting age to 16, because under the OSA (and Age Appropriate Design Code) the key age is 18 and under 18s are considered children with a heightened duty of care/appropriateness.

So it'll be weird that the British state's position will be that while they'd be able to vote on the same issues, it's not safe/appropriate for 16 year olds to have access to the same content as 18 year olds.

There is certainly an inconsistency, and one that I would say demonstrates the lack of wisdom in giving the vote to people whose brains have not yet fully developed.

[Sheilbh]

On that specific point I think sentencing guidelines here say that hasn't happened until 25.

I don't mind voting at 16 in principle - but I find it weird on how on various other things we've been pushing the minimum age up to 18, while voting feels like the only one where there's a proposal to move the minimum age down. As is already the case in Scotland.

Also, just to RH's point on free speech in the UK and the Economist article I shared, we now have platforms blocking speeches by MPs in parliament as potentially within the "legal but harmful" category - and at the same time have Hansard censoring itself to remove references to Palestine Action by Zarah Sultana in a speech in the Commons.

[crazy canuck]

Hansard is being redacted 

[HVC]

If history has taught us anything is that prohibition works and makes everything better.

[garbon]

If history has taught us anything is that prohibition works and makes everything better.

[garbon]

It's really, really bad law - and I posted about it before that it's really difficult to oppose. We saw that this morning with Farage having called for its repeal being accused of siding with "predators" and "extreme pornographers" instead of children. Also reports that among a 1,000%+ increase in VPN use, the government is now considering banning VPNs - which I think, in Europe, would only put us in the company of Belarus and Russia.

It's really bad law but it has been difficult to oppose, in part because not just a "protect the children" sense but it became a Christmas tree piece of legislation where every campaign (often very worthy and really sympathetic) got a specific provision. So there's stuff that age-gating of porn, cyber-bullying, promotion of eating disorder or suicide promoting content, hate speech etc - all of which is really bad and may be justifiable. But has just been put in this omnibus bill which gives a huge amount of power to American tech companies to decide what content is or isn't "harmful" (not, you'll note, whether or not it's legal).

It's really bad for free speech, it entrenches platform power and corporate discretion instead of the state just applying the law we already have. But arguing against is tough because you have grieving parents, and the NSPCC etc arrayed against you.

I love how they picked the worst option of allowing platforms to pick their verification service. To access adult content online, you have to let third party companies have your details. And like we are in a world where nothing ever gets hacked. And said content doesn't even need to be adult, just decided by platform that it sits under mature gating.

[garbon]

I guess I'm really surprised that a left leaning government is so sex negative. In my youth, I used the internet to explore my sexuality in ways that I never could have with my largely straight peers. With this legislation in place, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to figure things out / accept my sexuality. In fact, when one's own sexuality that one can only discuss online behind enforced age gating. Especially as sexual minorities have not fared so well when we get ourselves added to databases (as in this case, letting 3rd parties have access to our personal details to then connect us to mature material).

[Josquius]

The Internet of 20 years ago is not the Internet of today. When it comes to porn today is a very different place.

There are valid concerns behind how much over consumption of porn can mess with your mind, especially still developing minds.

Though really it's weird this seems to have become a priority of all this. I thought it grew out of that trans girl being murdered and her mother wanting to restrict social media for kids due to bullying, radicalisation, et al.

[garbon]

The Internet of 20 years ago is not the Internet of today. When it comes to porn today is a very different place.

There are valid concerns behind how much over consumption of porn can mess with your mind, especially still developing minds.

20+ years ago parents were even less equipped to monitor and regulate what children were doing online.

And sure, but I'm not sure trying to ban access, as can be circumvented by VPNs, is the cure all.