Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Tamas]

Why can't they use a different facility during restoration work?

Nobody dares break traditions in this country, because traditions -unwritten ones at that- are the only things holding it together.

[The Brain]

Why can't they use a different facility during restoration work?

Nobody dares break traditions in this country, because traditions -unwritten ones at that- are the only things holding it together.

Well, it's bold of them to so openly state that the strength of the British system isn't its people and institutions, but merely a physical building.

[Sheilbh]

Holy shit what a clusterfuck the House of Commons restoration project seems to be. 

It's absolutely crazy and perfect pennywise but pound foolish because the cost/time of this just keeps ballooning every time they delay making a decision.

They don't want to spend money on their place of work - and I think there would be a huge public backlash against it. But I think it's far smaller than the public backlash there'd be if it burned to the ground. And from everything I've read it's more or less a death trap at this stage.

I remember a lobby correspondent saying they find it almost endearing that MPs are so resistant to relocating temporarily given that MPs with an office in that building have the distinct Westminster experience of a man in high-vis wandering into their office and saying "oh yeah, the fire would just rip through here, five minutes flat".

And in terms of the figures which are huge the required work involves removing and replacing the entire sewage, electrical and heating systems as well as lots of asbestos removal before you could even start on the structural stuff (from Esther Webber). Plus it's incredibly listed and a World Heritage Site etc which multiply the costs hugely. Just last week there was an incident where many people may have been exposed to asbestos in the Speaker's House because of structural issues. Even that report to get a proper estimate cost £5 million.

Probably nothing will happen until there's a dreadful accident (hopefully at a time when parliament is closed) and huge national outrage

Like expenses it needs to be taken out of the hands of politicians and put in the hands of a trust whose job is to preserve the site as a working legislature for the nation, maybe chaired by a retired PM or something, who can take decisions and just tell the Commons and Lords what's happening plus a bill. If not that then they should just all move to a new site (Free Trade Hall in Manchester?) and turn it into a museum - because if they're not willing to look after the building they should leave

Edit: On the other hand someone posted it on Twitter a while ago but the Speaker did a video of him looking at the work on fixing the roof a few weeks ago and I don't think anything has ever had such powerful Northern dad energy

[Admiral Yi]

Unfortunately we've got a busy adversary now in Putin, who has gone full tonto."

Like, the Lone Ranger's sidekick, or something else?

[Sheilbh]

Like, the Lone Ranger's sidekick, or something else?

It means basically "he's gone mad". I saw HVC's post. No-one in the UK seems to have made that connection and I had to search for why it might slightly racist. So I don't think it's related here - but I suppose it could be the origin of that phrase in the 50s which wouldn't be great but it doesn't have a Lone Ranger connotation here.

[The Larch]

Tonto in Spanish means dumb or silly. Maybe also in Portuguese?

[The Brain]

The Lone Ranger was a wee bit racist.

[The Larch]

About the Common's refurbishment thing, besides the price tag, the fact that it would take 20 years as a minimum makes looking for a long term alternative essential.

[HVC]

Tonto in Spanish means dumb or silly. Maybe also in Portuguese?

Portuguese too. Though in the context it didn't occur to me. Thought lone ranger first.

[Sheilbh]

About the Common's refurbishment thing, besides the price tag, the fact that it would take 20 years as a minimum makes looking for a long term alternative essential.

Yeah I like the idea of a touring parliament. So maybe two years in Cardiff, Edinburgh, Manchester etc - but it couldn't happen because Northern Ireland.

So I think they'd do well to find a new permanent home - maybe looking at making the WFH/working from your constituency "digital" parliament from lockdown into a perrmanent option (though politicians hated that - which I can understand). As I say I'd look at a big venue in Manchester or Birmingham (I would suggest Leeds but I think the Lords are going to York and moving the entire legislature to Yorkshire seems like a risk that we'd never get it back ).

[Sheilbh]

Another great week for press freedom in Britain and immediately the police are using the Bloomberg case to try and kick reporters out of court

Police move to ban reporters from Birmingham Six journalist hearing
West Midlands police want notes of former MP Chris Mullin, thought to hold identity of surviving pub bomber
Haroon Siddique Legal affairs correspondent
Tue 22 Feb 2022 13.51 GMT

West Midlands police have asked a judge to exclude reporters from a hearing in which they will attempt to force a journalist and former MP who exposed the Birmingham Six's wrongful conviction to reveal his source material.

The force have applied for an order under the Terrorism Act 2000 compelling Chris Mullin to hand over material, including notebooks, from his 1985-86 investigation into the 1974 Birmingham pub bombings, which killed 21 people and injured more than 200.

The Birmingham Six were jailed for life in 1975 but their convictions were quashed in 1991, five years after the publication of Mullin's book Error of Judgement: the Truth About the Birmingham Bombings.

In 2018, West Midlands police announced a decision to reinvestigate the case. Officers believe Mullin has interviews that could confirm the identity of a surviving member of the IRA gang now thought to be behind the pub bombings. Relatives of victims of the bombings have criticised the former MP for refusing to disclose the names of living suspects.

Journalists are professionally bound to maintain the confidentiality of sources and Mullin is refusing to disclose the requested material on the basis that it would represent a fundamental breach of this principle. The National Union of Journalists is supporting his case.

West Midlands police confirmed on Tuesday that they had made submissions asking for Friday's hearing at the Old Bailey to be held in private. They cited the need to protect the privacy of a suspect whose name may be mentioned in court who has not been charged, in line with the decision in the recent Bloomberg case at the supreme court which protects such suspects.

News organisations including the Guardian, Daily Mail and Times plan to challenge the attempt to have the public, including journalists, excluded from the entirety of the hearing. The Guardian understands that Mullin wishes for the hearing to be held in public.

Many reporters have risked jail for contempt of court in the past rather than reveal sources. In a significant 1996 case, the European court of human rights backed a journalist from the Engineer magazine, Bill Goodwin, after a court in Britain tried to force him to reveal a source. However, in some decisions since the Goodwin case, judges have ruled that the need for disclosure outweighed the public interest in a journalist being entitled to protect their sources.

[Josquius]

The commons should be shut down, refurbed into a museum, a new more fit for purpose modern parliament (not a built for confrontation shouting hall) built elsewhere- less ideally but more likely elsewhere in London, more ideally in the midlands, more towards the centre of population for the country- apparently near Derby.

Just imagine the optics if they did move to Birmingham right as HS2 phase 1 opens though....

[Admiral Yi]

It means basically "he's gone mad". I saw HVC's post. No-one in the UK seems to have made that connection and I had to search for why it might slightly racist. So I don't think it's related here - but I suppose it could be the origin of that phrase in the 50s which wouldn't be great but it doesn't have a Lone Ranger connotation here.

Re-reading it, I think he was referencing full retard from Tropic Thunder, but substituting for the sake of being WOKE!!!111

[Sheilbh]

The commons should be shut down, refurbed into a museum, a new more fit for purpose modern parliament (not a built for confrontation shouting hall) built elsewhere- less ideally but more likely elsewhere in London, more ideally in the midlands, more towards the centre of population for the country- apparently near Derby.

Just imagine the optics if they did move to Birmingham right as HS2 phase 1 opens though....

Of course we actually know that if it was shut down and moved it would be sold to a shady shell company probably owned by an Emirati royal and turned into luxury apartments - complete with rooftop swimming pool

In fairness they could just cross the river and move into County Hall - now the site of a Premier Inn and Sea Life.

[crazy canuck]

Tonto in Spanish means dumb or silly. Maybe also in Portuguese?

I wonder if the script writers for the Lone Ranger series knew that.