Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

The Brain

I'm shocked that the new press chief would start off with a lie that is so easily fact-checked.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Tamas on February 07, 2022, 09:22:52 AM
QuoteBoris Johnson 'not a complete clown', says his new press chief
Guto Harri also says PM initiated rendition of Gloria Gaynor's I Will Survive when the two men met last week

:huh:
Mission accomplished for day one - had a pop at Cummings on Twitter and gave an interview (rare for a spad - the general approach is that advisors don't draw attention to themselves) with some quotable lines. The story is Guto Harri, not Johnson (until Cummings blogs about the flat/someone leaks a photo of Johnson doing the conga/someone gets fined etc):
QuoteLaura Kuenssberg
@bbclaurak
"I walked in, I gave him a salute and said  'Prime Minister, Guto Harri reporting for duty' and he stood up from behind his desk and started to salute but then said 'What am I doing, I should take the knee for you."....
"I then asked 'Are you going to survive Boris?' And he said in his deep voice, slowly and with purpose, whilst singing a little as he finished his sentence 'I Will Survive'." he answered, 'I've got all my love to give', so we had a little blast of Gloria Gaynor!".. says Harri
"He's not a complete clown, he's a very likeable character.
"90% of our discussion was very serious but he's a character and there is fun to be had . He's not the devil like some have mischaracterised him."
Given how nervy Tory MPs are, and how much they want evidence that No 10 is sharpening up, this is an interesting tack to have taken

Although I love that the interview was in Welsh to a Welsh language news website. I'm in 100% support of anyone and everyone in government forcing national reporters to get out Google translate for the other languages of these isles.

Separately - and this is slightly inspired by the Joe Rogan (and in the UK Jimmy Carr) discourse. The UK is looking at some really sweeping legislation around "online harms" which includes legal but harmful content (that could include misinformation - it depends on the direction of travel) as well as content that is harmful, especially for people protected by equalities legislation. It is a fairly huge shift - and I think quite striking for a government that's often charactised as culture warriors. Striking that these proposals have unanimous support on the committee and broad cross-party support - it makes me feel a little weird as I would broadly lean far more liberal/emphasising free speech than what's being proposed:
QuoteTechScape: UK parliament pushes back on the online safety bill
Up for discussion in this week's newsletter: why a cross-party committee wants a total rework of legislation to rein in the online 'wild west'
Dan Milmo Global technology editor
Wed 15 Dec 2021 11.45 GMT

The digital wild west met its sheriff this week. The joint committee on the online safety bill announced on Tuesday that it was reining in the tech industry's "land of the lawless" with its report on the pioneering legislation. Unveiling the document, the committee's Conservative chair, Damian Collins MP, said: "The Committee were unanimous in their conclusion that we need to call time on the wild west online."

The 192-page report recommends a sweeping overhaul of the bill, which is aimed at companies that provide user-generated content – ie social media networks like Facebook and Twitter and video sharing platforms like YouTube and TikTok – as well as search engines like Google. The bill imposes a duty of care on tech firms to protect users from harmful content, at the risk of a substantial fine brought by Ofcom, the communications industry regulator implementing the act.


The bill matters because it represents an attempt to properly regulate social media companies, video sharing sites and search engines under one legislative roof for the first time. And the report matters too. It is a thorough piece of work by a cross-party group of MPs and peers who know their stuff and supported the 170 conclusions unanimously. The government has already pledged to give it serious consideration and the committee is also likely to endure as a watchdog for the bill once it becomes law – an oversight structure modelled on the human rights joint committee. Here are some of the changes to the bill that the report recommends.

Make the objectives of the bill clear

The committee says the bill should set out its core objectives "clearly at the beginning". This is also quite handy for any TechScape readers who want to stay on top of a complex piece of legislative work. The report says Ofcom should protect UK citizens online by ensuring that tech firms do the following: comply with UK law and do not endanger public health or national security; provide a higher level of protection for children than for adults; identify and deal with the risk of "reasonably foreseeable harm" arising from the operation and design of their platforms (algorithms and the like); recognise and respond to the disproportionate level of harms experienced by people on the basis of protected characteristics (disability, age, sexual orientation, religion etc); make sure your systems are designed to be safe, ie that they don't steer users down dangerous content rabbit holes; safeguard freedom of expression and privacy; and operate with transparency and accountability in respect of online safety.

Legal but harmful content

One of the most controversial parts of the draft bill was clause 11, which covered the duty of care that applied to adults: protecting them from legal but harmful content. This caused concern because under the draft bill not only would the culture secretary have a key role in defining such content – meaning Nadine Dorries would, at least technically, have a censorship role over what is acceptable speech online – but it also contained an amorphous threat against freedom of expression.

The report proposes doing away with clause 11 altogether and replacing it with categories of transgression that mirror illegality in the offline world. This would mean banning online content that constitutes abuse, harassment or stirring up violence or hatred based on the protected characteristics in the Equality Act 2010. This, the committee hopes, will make tech platforms deal with hate speech.

The new approach would also mean banning other forms of content that are illegal in the offline world, such as intimidation of candidates in elections and facilitating human trafficking. The report's reasoning is that because these harms are already illegal in the offline world, "society has recognised they are legitimate reasons to interfere with freedom of speech rights [online]."


Journalistic exemptions – and citizen journalists

While we're on the subject of freedom of speech, the report also recommends a toughening up of the bill's exemption of news organisation content from takedowns by tech platforms. Under the committee's new recommendation, if it isn't illegal, it stays up: "We recommend that the news publisher content exemption is strengthened to include a requirement that news publisher content should not be moderated, restricted or removed unless it is content the publication of which clearly constitutes a criminal offence."

There is also an attempt to provide cover for "citizen journalists", such as bloggers, by addressing the draft bill's protections for content of "democratic importance". The report recommends instead that the bill protects content that is in the "public interest". Citizen journalists whose content has been taken down erroneously or unfairly can have their work reinstated rapidly via a dedicated and speeded-up complaints procedure.

Protecting children

In the draft bill, one of the three duties of care is to protect children from harmful content (the other two are protecting users from illegal harms and protecting adults from legal but harmful content). There are a number of new protections for children recommended by the committee. These include: requiring all pornography sites to prevent children from accessing their content, which could involve introducing age assurance measures; the definition of internet services likely to be accessed by children should be taken from the information commissioner's age appropriate design code; introducing minimum standards for age assurance measures (from entering your date of birth on to a pop-up form to more stringent age verification); and Ofcom should draw up a code of practice for protecting children online, which should refer to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, the AADC and children's right to receive information under the European convention on human rights.

Algorithms, misinformation, anonymity and safety by design

The report recommends tackling harmful algorithms, anonymous abuse and the spread of misinformation via a "safety by design code of practice" overseen by Ofcom. This code of practice requires platforms to look at how they operate, how they are designed and how that might harm users. For instance, tech companies must look at the algorithms that push content at users and prevent them from steering people down dangerous "rabbit holes". Mass-spreading of misinformation will be addressed by drawing up measures to prevent frictionless sharing of content at scale, as well as being covered in the code of practice. Anonymous trolling – and spreading of misinformation by anonymous accounts – will also be included in the code of practice as a specific category, with platforms required to come up with measures to deal with vexatious anonymous accounts, including the ability to prevent banned trolls from setting up new accounts.

The big players should also be required to commission annual, independent third-party audits of the effects of their algorithms, their risk assessments (where they outline to Ofcom the harms their services could cause) and their transparency reports (which will include stuff like the incidences of illegal and harmful content, and how many users have encountered such content). Ofcom should also have the power to inspect these audits and do its own checks.

New criminal categories

The report recommends the creation of new criminal offences including: cyberflashing; encouraging someone to commit self-harm; intentionally sending flashing images to someone with epilepsy (with the intent of causing a seizure); and knowingly sending false, persistent or threatening communications. Tech execs are also hit with an expansion of criminal liability. The report calls for tech companies to appoint a boardroom-level executive who will be designated the firm's "safety controller" and will be liable for a new criminal offence: failing to deal with "repeated and systemic failings that result in a significant risk of serious harm to users". The committee sees the latter offence as a back-stop, but tech companies obviously do not like it one bit.

Advertising

Martin Lewis, the consumer champion, made an impassioned appearance at a committee hearing in October, telling MPs and peers that people's lives were being "destroyed" by fraudsters using his image in scam online advertisements. The committee listened and has recommended that fraudulent ads be brought within the scope of the bill. Under its proposal, Ofcom will be responsible for acting against tech companies that consistently allow fraudulent or harmful ads on their platforms.
Let's bomb Russia!

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: Tamas on February 07, 2022, 09:22:52 AM
QuoteBoris Johnson 'not a complete clown', says his new press chief
Guto Harri also says PM initiated rendition of Gloria Gaynor's I Will Survive when the two men met last week

:huh:

He fails at being a complete clown. :(

Sheilbh

#19473
Pretty grim footage of Keir Starmer being mobbed by a group of about 20 people - I think anti-vaxxers (again - the UK has no covid restrictions and no vaccine mandates - they are just protesting the existence of a vaccine here :blink: :bleeding:). He then got bundled into his car and driven away. It seems like someone shouted "Jimmy Savile" which is a meme that circulates in those circles (and others) and that Johnson raised (apparently a bright idea by Rees-Mogg for a good debating point). Within minutes the mob were being addressed by Piers Corbyn, inevitably :bleeding:

Edit: It does look like in the UK anti-vaxxers are coagulating into a Trump, Assange etc general roving mob of conspiracy theory and resentment. They're a very real example of when you believe in nothing, you believe in anything.

Edit:Just seen the video - he's walking with Lammy. It's grim. Apparently it was a "freedom convoy" and one person's got a Canadian flag. Shouts about whether he's a freemason, why isn't he standing up to the government/fighting for our constitution/for the working class man, he's a traitor, "you should be hung", paedo protector, stuff about Jimmy Savile, "do you enjoy working for the new world order?", "did you get the vaccine?". Really very unpleasant. Police seemed to do reasonably well and it was a small but vocal/intimidating mob.

Edit: Also someone chanting "two one five three" - I have no idea what that means but assume it's something in the conspiracy circles? :hmm:
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Guto Harri's spectacular first day continues to go well. The Sun (:bleeding:) have got notes from his lobbying for Huawei :lol:

Key section:
QuoteOn June 2, 2020, he met with then No10 Chief of Staff Sir Eddie Lister alongside three top executives from the Chinese Communist Party-linked company.

In the 25-minute video call, Mr Harri, representing lobbying firm Hawthorn Advisors, directly asked Sir Eddie which ministers he could "nudge" for help, according to minutes taken.

Britain's Security Service was then conducting a review into the risk of allowing the firm into the UK's core telecommunications network.

Sir Eddie spoke extremely candidly about the PM's views on the firm, suggesting Mr Johnson did not want to ban them but was "caught" between pressure from the Tory party and the US Government.

He insisted: "This PM is not anti-China and is not Donald Trump." And added the PM "believes in good relationships with China. He is not coming from a negative place in any way".

But he admitted: "We are caught. We want the technology, we want it rolled out. There's an American concern and a parliamentary concern.

"There are a large number of MPs across the political divide who have a problem with China. Some are Atlanticists, some over Covid, some over Hong Kong, some over human rights."


After The Sun revealed Mr Harri's links to Huawei yesterday, No10 defended his appointment saying he had previously "provided advice to the clients of a private company, and that is entirely legitimate".

But the minutes show Mr Harri directly asking No10 if there were "any ­ministers we should talk to? Perhaps give a nudge in DCMS (Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport) or Treasury?".

Downing Street insists that full security checks have already been completed on Mr Johnson's new Director of Communications.

Cummings has already come out and said Harri shouldn't get security clearance and should be banned from having a personal phone on site. IDS is apparently raising questions about whether he's been fully screened and cleared by MI5.
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas


Josquius

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 07, 2022, 01:10:08 PM
Pretty grim footage of Keir Starmer being mobbed by a group of about 20 people - I think anti-vaxxers (again - the UK has no covid restrictions and no vaccine mandates - they are just protesting the existence of a vaccine here :blink: :bleeding:). He then got bundled into his car and driven away. It seems like someone shouted "Jimmy Savile" which is a meme that circulates in those circles (and others) and that Johnson raised (apparently a bright idea by Rees-Mogg for a good debating point). Within minutes the mob were being addressed by Piers Corbyn, inevitably :bleeding:

Edit: It does look like in the UK anti-vaxxers are coagulating into a Trump, Assange etc general roving mob of conspiracy theory and resentment. They're a very real example of when you believe in nothing, you believe in anything.

Edit:Just seen the video - he's walking with Lammy. It's grim. Apparently it was a "freedom convoy" and one person's got a Canadian flag. Shouts about whether he's a freemason, why isn't he standing up to the government/fighting for our constitution/for the working class man, he's a traitor, "you should be hung", paedo protector, stuff about Jimmy Savile, "do you enjoy working for the new world order?", "did you get the vaccine?". Really very unpleasant. Police seemed to do reasonably well and it was a small but vocal/intimidating mob.

Edit: Also someone chanting "two one five three" - I have no idea what that means but assume it's something in the conspiracy circles? :hmm:

I'm really curious about these numbers.

Nice comment seen elsewhere - Credit where credit is due to Piers Corbyn. Proving himself the worst Piers and the worst Corbyn despite stuff opposition on both
██████
██████
██████

chipwich

Quote from: Tyr on February 06, 2022, 06:08:32 AM
Saw this last night and it amazed me.

The media. The BBC at that. Saying positive things about the last Labour government 🤯

BBC News - Levelling up: 'It's about people, not shiny new buildings'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60154310

The last Labour government... that left labour despises.

Richard Hakluyt

According to the BBC :

"The protest in Westminster was an attempt to replicate the "freedom convoy" in Canada's capital in recent days.

But unlike the protest in Ottawa, the UK rally was small. Familiar faces from anti-vaccine rallies that have been held during the pandemic were in attendance.

The small gathering outside the headquarters of the Metropolitan Police had been relatively quiet up until Sir Keir was surrounded."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60297998

Unpleasant for Starmer of course; but the good news is that these consummate wankers are numbered only in the dozens.

Attacking politicians, even when they were Rees-Mogg and Farage, always irritates me and I would like to see the perpetrators punished more severely....their misbehaviour leads to security barriers that further distance "us" and "them"  :mad:

garbon

I see the think of the children, required age verification for porn sites is back in play.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Tamas

There was some start of a "truckers for freedom" demo in Hungary as well, when I read a day or two ago there were 80 trucks and cars gathering for a drive to Budapest, not sure when they are getting there or if the government will mobilise his contacts in the far-right to quietly make it disappear.

Apparently there has been a pan-European far-right movement to get convoys started in each country and drive up to Brussels. The Hungarian one's demand list is downright esoteric including things like banning "health regulations" and 5G.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Tyr on February 07, 2022, 06:06:41 PMI'm really curious about these numbers.
Same - they must mean something in conspiracy circles but I've no idea what. I searched and can't find anything :hmm:

QuoteNice comment seen elsewhere - Credit where credit is due to Piers Corbyn. Proving himself the worst Piers and the worst Corbyn despite stuff opposition on both
:lol:

QuoteThe last Labour government... that left labour despises.
The Labour left don't really matter any more though.

Although a reminder of what Labour's foreign policy could have been :bleeding:


Instead we have John Healey and David Lammy doing a good job - thank goodness. Worth noting Andrew Murray is the Corbyn aide who was banned from entering Ukraine for his involvement in the Solidarity with the Antifascist Resistance in Ukraine campaign in 2014 etc. He was in the Communist Party until 2016 when he left to join Labour and become a Corbyn aide - and used to work for Novosti back in the day, so is basically just a full-blown tankie from what I can tell. He's also written a short paper on "The Empire and Ukraine" :bleeding:

QuoteI see the think of the children, required age verification for porn sites is back in play.
It never went away. The whole online harms/online safety bill worries me a lot because I think even if the aims are good it is profoundly illiberal and pretty sweeping - I think there's similar proposals in Australia and Canada and it would be interesting to see how they're approaching it. The stuff around "legal but harmful content" for adults for example seems like a slightly alarming concept.

QuoteUnpleasant for Starmer of course; but the good news is that these consummate wankers are numbered only in the dozens.
I did see that apparently this "Freedom Convoy" had been moving from different cities in the UK and meeting up for mini-rallies on the way and no-one realised because it was basically 10 people in a carpark :lol:

One of the guys harassing Starmer was shouting "are you here to distract from the protest?" when, of course, no-one would have known about the content if it wasn't for them harassing Starmer.

But it is thankfully a small number of familiar faces. If you see any videos of anti-vax protests there are a few you see in basically every video and they're all popping up here. They are very much recurring characters (none more so than Piers Corbyn).
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Also it seems like someone has it out for Truss - there's been two absolute non-stories that someone's been briefing/spinning to try and turn them into a scandal.

First there was the £500,000 private flight to Australia - which I thought sounded bad, until I read the article and the basic issue was that as Foreign Secretary she used one of the planes available to government and the cost of a flight to Australia is approx £500k. Which doesn't sound as bad. I can think of lots of reasons why a Foreign Secretary especially might use a government plane and if they're available for government I don't really have a problem with them being used (this reminds me of the rolling scandals we had over how outrageous it was that Blair was buying planes for government use: "Blair Force One" etc :bleeding:).

Now there's a story that she had a birthday party, including dinner with Therese Coffrey from the cabinet on 29 January. There's no allegations that she broke any rules or anything like that. Apparently the issues are that it was two days before the Gray report was released and that Truss later tested positive for covid. I still struggle to see what the story is - but according to one journalist's Tory source: "So arrogant, so tone-deaf, so stupid."

It feels like someone's trying to put out stories and hope one of them lands - maybe Sunak's team to hobble a rival? :hmm:
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 08, 2022, 05:40:43 AM
Unpleasant for Starmer of course; but the good news is that these consummate wankers are numbered only in the dozens.

Attacking politicians, even when they were Rees-Mogg and Farage, always irritates me and I would like to see the perpetrators punished more severely....their misbehaviour leads to security barriers that further distance "us" and "them"  :mad:
Snap poll on this incident - once the public turn on you :ph34r:
QuoteSavanta ComRes
@SavantaComRes
NEW SNAP POLL

69% say PM responsible for LOTO being harassed
54% 2019 Con also say this
68% say he should publicly apologise to Starmer
68% say he should withdraw comments
64% say politics has gotten nastier in last 5 yrs

1,094 UK adults, 8 Feb 2022

I think that 65-70% who think Johnson should resign are just going to be like this on every single thing that happens now. And I love it :lol: :blush:
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas

Regardless of their existing feelings they are just correct. It is absolutely no coincidence that the mob was emboldened by the PM validating their toxic wacko beliefs.