Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Gups]

The north east assembly referendum as a dry run for brexit? Errr... Wut?

This is where the lack of decent northern focused media really hurts. I'd love to see an actual proper right up of that shambles but instead all you get is southerners looking at the headline figure and coming to strange conclusions.

What do you mean? All the article is saying is that Cummins (who is from Durham) used the referendum to establish a successful campaign strategy which he also applied in the EU referendum. Basically simple slogans against complex arguments. No deviation from talking points.

[Josquius]

The north east assembly referendum as a dry run for brexit? Errr... Wut?

This is where the lack of decent northern focused media really hurts. I'd love to see an actual proper right up of that shambles but instead all you get is southerners looking at the headline figure and coming to strange conclusions.

What do you mean? All the article is saying is that Cummins (who is from Durham) used the referendum to establish a successful campaign strategy which he also applied in the EU referendum. Basically simple slogans against complex arguments. No deviation from talking points.

The presented message is always was a 80-20 massive success for the no side.
Never any mention of the way they ran it at the same time as local government reorganisation referenda (which iirc were defeated but happened anyway), or how it was an experiment in postal vote only voting, or the miserably low turnout, or complete lack of any visible campaigning for either side.
The whole thing was seriously an absolute shambles. But it keeps being presented as proof the UK doesn't want local devolution.

For my part I think I voted no though after having actually learned about the issue since would now be very strongly yes.

[Gups]

The article was about how  he ran a campaign not about the virtues or otherwise of devolution.

[Sheilbh]

Tory MP for Bury South is defecting to Labour.

We're not in the fag-end of John Major's premiership, but again it does feel like there's just lots of 90s tributes going on. He crossed the floor just before PMQs which shows an admirable commitment to drama

Edit: Also polling in red wall seats has Labour 10 points ahead and a huge decline in Johnson's net approval rating - and Starmer getting to neutral is an achievement that makes him one of the more popular politicians in the country:


Speaking of which - Sunak's numbers are still very good. With tax rises and cost of living increases on the way - plus the impact of covid spending - I feel like that can't last for a Chancellor. It makes me think that if Sunak's ambitious, then if not now, when?

[Sheilbh]

Is anybody going to quote Cromwell during the No Confidence Vote: "You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go"?

David Davis just did it in PMQs

Now as a grey-beard senior backbencher - not the full quote just "you have sat here too long for any good you have been doing - in the name of God, go." Another significant line - "I expect my leaders to shoulder the responsibility for the actions they take. Yesterday, he did the opposite of that."

Edit: And my expectation is that's the most damaging moment. I think the whips were trying to organise a fight back for Johnson over the last couple of days and that's the last thing he needed from his own backbenches.

Edit: The David Davis moment - https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1483782425570336769?s=20

Not a full Geoffrey Howe, but not far off - and Johnson (who's written a biography of Churchill) feigning ignorance about that line is probably a sign that he wasn't expecting it.

[Tamas]

Labour MP Diana Johnson delivers one of the most scathing questions:

When the prime minister has to spend his time trying to convince the British public that he is stupid not dishonest isn't it time for him to go?

[garbon]

Labour MP Diana Johnson delivers one of the most scathing questions:

When the prime minister has to spend his time trying to convince the British public that he is stupid not dishonest isn't it time for him to go?

[Josquius]

Tory MP for Bury South is defecting to Labour.

We're not in the fag-end of John Major's premiership, but again it does feel like there's just lots of 90s tributes going on. He crossed the floor just before PMQs which shows an admirable commitment to drama

Edit: Also polling in red wall seats has Labour 10 points ahead and a huge decline in Johnson's net approval rating - and Starmer getting to neutral is an achievement that makes him one of the more popular politicians in the country:


Speaking of which - Sunak's numbers are still very good. With tax rises and cost of living increases on the way - plus the impact of covid spending - I feel like that can't last for a Chancellor. It makes me think that if Sunak's ambitious, then if not now, when?

That is a wise career move for "Red wall" tory MPs before the next election.
How should Labour deal with it in the long term however? These aren't exactly great examples of human beings...

[Sheilbh]

That is a wise career move for "Red wall" tory MPs before the next election.
How should Labour deal with it in the long term however? These aren't exactly great examples of human beings...

Welcome them with open arms and try to get some more

I'm pretty cynical about it. If a Tory MP is willing to defect to Labour, Tory voters are willing to defect to Labour - and that's the route to winning elections and forming government and actually being able to change things instead of feeling warm and fuzzy on a protest march.

There were plenty of defections in the run-up to 97 and I hope the Labour whips' office are monitoring waverying Tories to try and get them across (ideally at times designed to cause maximum damage to the government - like today).

[Tamas]

Indeed, what all Labour members should answer: do they ACTUALLY want to govern? Or they want to sit on the sidelines, bitch and moan and wait passively for the coming of the true socialist paradise (preferably overnight as they don't seem to abide any transitional state between right wing facism and leninist paradise)?

[Tamas]

Following David Davis' plea for Boris Johnson to 'in the name of God, go', Conservative Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) told the prime minister "for God's sake, keep going".

He said:

But for this Prime Minister we would have had far more severe lockdowns and restrictions, so may I say to him, please prime minister remain true to your instincts, please sweep away all these remaining controls like isolation which are crippling the NHS and may say to him lastly to paraphrase Leo Amery for God's sake, keep going.

Johnson replied:

That's right, I haven't sat here quite long enough, indeed nothing like long enough in my view ... I think that masks do erode our ability to educate properly and to learn properly, and I'm glad that they're going.

To laughter in the chamber, SNP Stephen Flynn asked:

Can I have confirmation from the prime minister, is he getting rid of the Covid rules simply because he doesn't understand them?

Johnson replied:

We're able to make progress on the Covid rules and to get rid of them because of our deep understanding of the pandemic.

Our Savoir Boris, thank you for saving us from even stricter restrictions, the highest death toll in Europe stands as the true monument of your bravery and talent! May you also deliver us finally from the tyranny of masks, that burden unbearable to all true patriots!

[Josquius]

That is a wise career move for "Red wall" tory MPs before the next election.
How should Labour deal with it in the long term however? These aren't exactly great examples of human beings...

Welcome them with open arms and try to get some more

I'm pretty cynical about it. If a Tory MP is willing to defect to Labour, Tory voters are willing to defect to Labour - and that's the route to winning elections and forming government and actually being able to change things instead of feeling warm and fuzzy on a protest march.

There were plenty of defections in the run-up to 97 and I hope the Labour whips' office are monitoring waverying Tories to try and get them across (ideally at times designed to cause maximum damage to the government - like today).

For now certainly.
Come next election however? - should they keep someone who swapped parties purely to save their own skin?
There's Corbynite obsessing over doctrinal purity then there's letting penny-Trumps run free within the party.

[Tamas]

"Surprisingly" all restrictions re-introduced due to omicron are going away, except for the mandatory post-travel testing which yields a nice income to companies employing MPs as consultants.

[Sheilbh]

For now certainly.
Come next election however? - should they keep someone who swapped parties purely to save their own skin?
There's Corbynite obsessing over doctrinal purity then there's letting penny-Trumps run free within the party.

Absolutely keep him - otherwise the reward for people who defect is that they won't get anything from it and they'll be dumped at the first opportunity, so why risk it. Previous Tory-Labour defectors ended up in the cabinet, which I think is fine.

I think the left in the UK has a bt of problem because lots of people (myself included) would never vote Tory but won't even try to comprehend someone who would - and almost thinks that only an idiot or a monster could vote Tory. When you need to win those voters that's an issue

Edit: And reports that Labour are working on other defections - if they can get a drumbeat of them, that's very helpful.

[Sheilbh]

"Surprisingly" all restrictions re-introduced due to omicron are going away, except for the mandatory post-travel testing which yields a nice income to companies employing MPs as consultants.

I quite liked the SNP MP's question of whether Johnson was dropping the covid restrictions because he didn't understand them