Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

The most entertaining bit was when people were asked if they were present, their scripted answer was that was a fact that the investigation would determine.  They seem to have lost their memories...

The Times had their political commentators do an analysis of PMQs and it's pretty brutal from all of them, but I think Daniel Finkelstein is right. As risible as the line is - it's the best option Johnson has:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-won-pmqs-times-political-commentators-give-their-verdict-vc6ppcgkb

Daniel Finkelstein
Here is what happened: Sir Keir Starmer asked all the right questions and Boris Johnson gave the only possible answers. The questions were devastating and the answers were ridiculous.

There were only three possible responses the prime minister could give today. First there was "I did attend the party, and I'm sorry". But this would have meant admitting he lied to the Commons when he said he didn't know about parties and was furious to hear about them. So this answer was out.

The second was "I'm not saying whether I was there, we must wait for Sue Gray". This refusal to say if he knew he was in his own garden was simply unsustainable. Tory MPs, and everyone else, would have found it unacceptable.

So he was left with "I was there, I thought it was a work event, let's wait for Sue Gray to rule on its nature". While the only possible line of argument, it is plainly absurd. At a political level it is laughable (nobody will believe it) and at a technical level it is vulnerable (evidence may emerge that shows he knew exactly what it was, or Gray's report will show clearly that he should have).

There wasn't a good answer, but he picked the least bad of the bad options. His tone was perfectly all right, if tone was the issue. But tone is not the issue.

His only hope was that somehow Starmer would blow it. He did not blow it.

[Richard Hakluyt]

...and the longer Johnson clings on the worse it will be for the Tories 

Time to place a bulk order of popcorn on Amazon.

[Sheilbh]

...and the longer Johnson clings on the worse it will be for the Tories 

Time to place a bulk order of popcorn on Amazon.

There's a meeting of the 1922 Committee today apparently - which I imagine will be fun

Edit: And Will Wragg - deupty chair of the 1922 Committee - has also publicly said Johnson's position is untenable and he should resign.

[Razgovory]

That's the scandal that would bring down a PM?  We had a President who blackmailed a foreign leader into framing his opponents son.

[Josquius]

...and the longer Johnson clings on the worse it will be for the Tories 

Time to place a bulk order of popcorn on Amazon.

I wish that was so but I'm skeptical. People will forget him quick. I guess it's the trouble with how so many these days think we have a presidential system..

[PJL]

One bit of silver lining for the Tories is that if Boris does resign because of this, it'll be the first time in decades that a Tory PM resigned/left on an issue other than Europe, which would signify that they have at last got that issue out of their system.

[Jacob]

One bit of silver lining for the Tories is that if Boris does resign because of this, it'll be the first time in decades that a Tory PM resigned/left on an issue other than Europe, which would signify that they have at last got that issue out of their system.

[crazy canuck]

That's the scandal that would bring down a PM?  We had a President who blackmailed a foreign leader into framing his opponents son.

One possible conclusion is that British Tories are not so far gone as American Republicans.

[Sheilbh]

One possible conclusion is that British Tories are not so far gone as American Republicans.

They never have been.

Reading Britain through America has not been a helpful approach for the last five years (if ever) and I think it obscures more than it reveals.

[garbon]

One possible conclusion is that British Tories are not so far gone as American Republicans.

They never have been.

Reading Britain through America has not been a helpful approach for the last five years (if ever) and I think it obscures more than it reveals.

It also seems like the PM only being canned because he lied about parties isn't exactly a good look for a nation.

[crazy canuck]

One possible conclusion is that British Tories are not so far gone as American Republicans.

They never have been.

Reading Britain through America has not been a helpful approach for the last five years (if ever) and I think it obscures more than it reveals.

I agree.  But the question I responded to was posed  through an American lens.  Hence the reference.

[Richard Hakluyt]

One possible conclusion is that British Tories are not so far gone as American Republicans.

They never have been.

Reading Britain through America has not been a helpful approach for the last five years (if ever) and I think it obscures more than it reveals.

It also seems like the PM only being canned because he lied about parties isn't exactly a good look for a nation.

He lied about breaking the law.

[Sheilbh]

It also seems like the PM only being canned because he lied about parties isn't exactly a good look for a nation.

But it's not about parties - it's about hypocrisy and fairness. You can't impose rules that have an incredibly powerful and often intimate effect on people's lives (not being with loved ones when they die, or not being able to see loved ones - remember Zoom dates ) and then break them. If you make public health measures part of the criminal law then you need to make sure that you and everyone in your government are following them.

Yeah we can be frivolous and have fun with the memes about "I thought it was a work event" (because it is fun) but the core is very serious.

As I say I think Labour have played this very well and built up their attack line. But this has gone back for a while. If you zoom out and look at Johnson's poll ratings for example there's broad trends that are really clear - but there's three events that cause serious falls and don't recover: Cummings/Barnard Castle; Owen Paterson; and the parties. All of them at their heart are about hypocrisy and not following rules that apply to everyone else.

I actually wonder if some of this was caused by the "lol nothing matters"/"Tories - 45% (+8)" jokes on Twitter getting internalised by Johnson and the people around him.

[crazy canuck]

It also seems like the PM only being canned because he lied about parties isn't exactly a good look for a nation.

But it's not about parties - it's about hypocrisy and fairness. You can't impose rules that have an incredibly powerful and often intimate effect on people's lives (not being with loved ones when they die, or not being able to see loved ones - remember Zoom dates ) and then break them. If you make public health measures part of the criminal law then you need to make sure that you and everyone in your government are following them.

Yeah we can be frivolous and have fun with the memes about "I thought it was a work event" (because it is fun) but the core is very serious.

As I say I think Labour have played this very well and built up their attack line. But this has gone back for a while. If you zoom out and look at Johnson's poll ratings for example there's broad trends that are really clear - but there's three events that cause serious falls and don't recover: Cummings/Barnard Castle; Owen Paterson; and the parties. All of them at their heart are about hypocrisy and not following rules that apply to everyone else.

I actually wonder if some of this was caused by the "lol nothing matters"/"Tories - 45% (+8)" jokes on Twitter getting internalised by Johnson and the people around him.

Yep, if I was more technically able I would link the speech he gave in Parliament where he forcefully stated it is understandable that people should be outraged by hypocrisy.

[garbon]

But it's not about parties - it's about hypocrisy and fairness. You can't impose rules that have an incredibly powerful and often intimate effect on people's lives (not being with loved ones when they die, or not being able to see loved ones - remember Zoom dates ) and then break them. If you make public health measures part of the criminal law then you need to make sure that you and everyone in your government are following them.

Yeah we can be frivolous and have fun with the memes about "I thought it was a work event" (because it is fun) but the core is very serious.

As I say I think Labour have played this very well and built up their attack line. But this has gone back for a while. If you zoom out and look at Johnson's poll ratings for example there's broad trends that are really clear - but there's three events that cause serious falls and don't recover: Cummings/Barnard Castle; Owen Paterson; and the parties. All of them at their heart are about hypocrisy and not following rules that apply to everyone else.

I actually wonder if some of this was caused by the "lol nothing matters"/"Tories - 45% (+8)" jokes on Twitter getting internalised by Johnson and the people around him.

So as I said it is about lies about parties.

I'm not sure Tory hypocrisy is a new line of attack. It certainly existed before the pandemic. Witness Brexit.

Boris's government has blacker marks against it than hypocrisy (Labour even has a handy catalog of some: https://labour.org.uk/issues/campaigns/jobs/tories-file-of-failure/) and yet those were not enough to take down the PM.