Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Weird. Because I would draw the opposite conclusion. Is "ethnic" a code word for race in the UK?

Often, yes.

And why does it also exclude Asians?

It doesn't.

If you were going to include, say, Germans or Poles or whatever what would you say?

I don't know in terms of the census categories they fall under "white other".

[Valmy]

It doesn't.

Oh. You usually say BAME but in this case just said BME.

[Valmy]

I don't know in terms of the census categories they fall under "white other".

Well we don't have a large number of non-hispanic white immigrants anymore, as a percentage of the population, but when we did they were called "white ethnics".

But here the whole idea of a "ethnic American" is weird and bizarre so using a term like "minority ethnicity" would not make any sense.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I think it's the census categories:
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/style-guide/ethnic-groups

I don't think that actually overlaps too much with opinion polling, which is less granular.

[Valmy]

Yeah I think it's the census categories:
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/style-guide/ethnic-groups

I don't think that actually overlaps too much with opinion polling, which is less granular.

Oh they sure do use "ethnic groups" to mean "racial groups"

How weird.

Edit: What is an "Irish traveler"?

[Sheilbh]

Isn't it both? Sort of race and then ethnicity?

[garbon]

I've always found it a bit off putting that I get to be: Any other Mixed or Multiple ethnic background

That tells a lot.

[Sheilbh]

Edit: What is an "Irish traveler"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers

[Valmy]

Isn't it both? Sort of race and then ethnicity?

But they don't say that they clearly use ethnicity for both. Which is just different. So hence my confusion. I would certainly consider "African American" an ethnicity I would never think all people with black skin are part of the same ethnic group. That would be weird.

[Valmy]

Edit: What is an "Irish traveler"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers

See just when I thought there was nothing more to learn about the um...islands of some sort that exist someplace.

[Duque de Bragança]

Edit: What is an "Irish traveler"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers

See just when I thought there was nothing more to learn about the um...islands of some sort that exist someplace.

Les îles Britanniques.

[Sheilbh]

But they don't say that they clearly use ethnicity for both. Which is just different. So hence my confusion. I would certainly consider "African American" an ethnicity I would never think all people with black skin are part of the same ethnic group. That would be weird.

But isn't that why there's a split between Black Caribbean (for black people of Caribbean descent) and Black African (for black people of African descent)?

I think - from memory - it's normally White British/White Irish etc or Black Caribbean/Black African etc. So I read it as race and then ethnicity.

[Valmy]

But they don't say that they clearly use ethnicity for both. Which is just different. So hence my confusion. I would certainly consider "African American" an ethnicity I would never think all people with black skin are part of the same ethnic group. That would be weird.

But isn't that why there's a split between Black Caribbean (for black people of Caribbean descent) and Black African (for black people of African descent)?

I think - from memory - it's normally White British/White Irish etc or Black Caribbean/Black African etc. So I read it as race and then ethnicity.

Sure. They just use the term ethnicity for both things. They don't say "race and ethnicity" and then on the chart they use "ethnic minority" for "non-white" instead of "non-White British" which is what I would presume is meant.

[The Larch]

Edit: What is an "Irish traveler"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers

See just when I thought there was nothing more to learn about the um...islands of some sort that exist someplace.

Think Brad Pitt and his gang in Snatch.

[Sheilbh]

Sure. They just use the term ethnicity for both things. They don't say "race and ethnicity" and then on the chart they use "ethnic minority" for "non-white" instead of "non-White British" which is what I would presume is meant.

Yeah - I just looked into the 2021 survey and they refer to it as "high-level" category - for example "high-level "White" category" - which is basically race with specific tickboxes. Given that they put "White" in quotation marks I wonder if it's because they're not sure of the use of race as a category in itself? In general I think there is a move in the UK from left and right to try and look more at the sub-groups because there's often a lot of difference for example British Indians v British Bengalis even though both are South Asian.

Interesting to see the list of "tick-boxes" they either found needed work or possibly adding in 2021: Gypsy, Irish Traveller, Jewish, Kashmiri, Korean, Roma, Sikh and Somali.

I've always found it a bit off putting that I get to be: Any other Mixed or Multiple ethnic background

That tells a lot.

Yeah - not great. I can't remember the census but is there a write-in space?