Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[garbon]

There is a problem though. If Scotland has a referendum every 10 years, and only needs to get 50%+1 to leave, an asymmetry is created. Votes to remain being merely provisional whereas a vote to leave is permanent. It is not really Scotland deciding its own future when a tiny majority to leave occurs on a single date shortly after brexit and while the UK is being run by a shapeshifting creep.

Yeah, it makes it incumbent to maintain the consent of the various constituent parts. It's not a sport that requires a fair win-or-lose resolution. It's kind of like a marriage, that requires the buy-in of both parties on a continual base. You only need one party to decide they want a divorce for real once, and it's over. If you want to stop having the tearful "I can't go on like this" blow out fight every couple of years, you should figure out what it'll take to get the marriage to work. You can't just say "you said you didn't want a divorce two years ago, you can't have one now."

It's been the same in Canada with Quebec. In practice, we don't seem to be getting independence referendums every few years but if the political situation was such that we did have them every couple of years then that's people's right of self-determination. I think that in reality, referendum fatigue would set in and support would turn against it.

I think that analogy is flawed because in a marriage you've just two parties that are each indivisible. If you are considering a divorce, you don't ask the opinion of each of your body parts and then if 51% of your body wants a divorce, you push for divorce.

[Sheilbh]

Local elections means local activists doing social media campaign videos - like this magnificent effort from the Tories of Blackburn:
https://twitter.com/HannahAlOthman/status/1389964348102225924?s=20



Edit: Also Hannah Al-Othman has flagged the pretty amazing make up of Bolton borough council:
18 Labour, 17 Tories, 6 Lib Dems, 4 Farnworth and Kearsley First (), 3 from the Bolton Independent Group, 2 Horwich and Blackrod First Independents (), 2 UKIP, 1 One Kearsley (apparently formerly of Farnworth and Kearsley First ), 6 independents and 2 vacancies (following deaths of sitting councillors).

I am desperate to know the details of how One Kearsley split from the Farnworth and Kearsly First group

[Tonitrus]

Also this case is a little weird. A lot of people who are detained are still going to try and stay - so non-visa tourists (Americans, Australians, Brazilians and I think now Europeans - basically most of the world) are sometimes detained if they don't have any evidence of onward travel like a return flight or a flight to their next destination.

From my (pre-COVID) experiences of entering the UK without proof of onward travel, the airlines at the departing location (Seattle in these cases) were pretty good about asking/making sure I had proof of onward travel or a UK residency card (in my case, military orders filled in as said proof).

Entering the UK the first time, the aforementioned orders were good enough for passport control.

The second time arriving at Heathrow, it was all automated, and I just scanned my passport (and maybe my face too, I cannot recall for sure) and entered the country without any further checks/customs/or even encountering verification from a human being. 

[chipwich]

I wonder if, in the post Tump era, not knowing how many children the candidate has would still be a disqualifying factor for president.

[Syt]

Jason Isaacs campaigning for Labour: https://twitter.com/jasonsfolly/status/1390225660468211714?s=20

[Josquius]

I voted Green in the local council election.
Probably going to mean some scum bags win due to the decent vote being split 3 ways.
But I fail to care too much and various other factors.
I was bored and very Meh about it so wrote commentary on the ballot for each candidate.
Interestingly we had farage Inc and some trident logo'd full on fascist party running

Also had a vote for the police and crime commissioner... Which I don't get at all. Why the hell are we voting for this?
There was an independent candidate who I checked out and didn't seem far right. Didn't check too hard though so he might well be. Put him as first choice to avoid him losing his deposit and Labour 2nd.

[Legbiter]

BBC is reporting on an unusually lively fishing dispute involving Jersey. 60 French boats blockading a port there.

[Josquius]

BBC is reporting on an unusually lively fishing dispute involving Jersey. 60 French boats blockading a port there.

Yes. The media is really banging the drum about this.
Neglecting to mention its jerseys fault. Note the same not happening for Guernsey

[Agelastus]

BBC is reporting on an unusually lively fishing dispute involving Jersey. 60 French boats blockading a port there.

Yes. The media is really banging the drum about this.
Neglecting to mention its jerseys fault. Note the same not happening for Guernsey

A quick google search suggests that that's partly because Guernsey issued licenses (and had it's own row with France) last year.

[Legbiter]

As a licensing dispute it's fairly standard but France threatening to cut off electricity to Jersey is unusual I think.

[The Brain]

Le Brexit means le Brexit.

[Legbiter]

According to this article Jersey fishermen almost exclusively sell their catch in French ports.  That means they should do a deal fairly quickly.

Over 250 Norman and Breton fishing boats rely on their catches around the islands – an industry which supports 900 families and 2,000 jobs on sea and land. At the same time, Channel Islands boats depend almost entirely on their rights to sell fish in Granville, Cherbourg and other French ports.

When they examined the licences issued by the Jersey government last Friday, however, French fishermen found they bore no relation to what had been promised. The licences varied, with no apparent logic, between the right to fish for 170 days a year and the right to fish for seven days.

Claude La Vaullée, a Norman skipper who has fished off Jersey for 40 years, found that his boat, Le Cach, had been given the right to fish for 11 hours a year. He told the regional newspaper Ouest France, that he and other skippers had now equipped their vessels to "re-stage the Battle of Trafalgar".

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210505/analysis-is-france-really-about-to-cut-off-electricity-to-the-tiny-island-of-jersey-over-fish/

[Sheilbh]

As a licensing dispute it's fairly standard but France threatening to cut off electricity to Jersey is unusual I think.

Yeah I think the threat to cut off Jersey's electricity supply kind of escalated things.

As it is despite the French fishermen threatening to blockade the port in Jersey, it seems that they aren't making a move and the French and British navies are both nearby watching them.

[The Brain]

he and other skippers had now equipped their vessels to "re-stage the Battle of Trafalgar"

With blue and red no-name sides?

[Josquius]

BBC is reporting on an unusually lively fishing dispute involving Jersey. 60 French boats blockading a port there.

Yes. The media is really banging the drum about this.
Neglecting to mention its jerseys fault. Note the same not happening for Guernsey

A quick google search suggests that that's partly because Guernsey issued licenses (and had it's own row with France) last year.

Yep. With Jersey following the British approach of ignoring the developing issues of brexit until the deadline is already long past.
And being very slap dash and make it up as they go along about it.


Ze French say.

https://www.lepoint.fr/politique/brexit-londres-s-indigne-des-menaces-francaises-contre-jersey-05-05-2021-2425228_20.php

>According to Paris, the UK published on Friday a list of 41 French vessels, out of 344 applications, authorised to fish in Jersey waters, but this list is accompanied by new requirements "which were not agreed, discussed or notified beforehand" under the agreement.\[...\] 
> 
>To obtain this authorisation, however, vessels must demonstrate to the UK authorities that they were already fishing in this area during the 2012-2016 reference period. And tensions have resurfaced in recent days, with fishermen complaining about London's slowness in issuing them with licences. 
> 
>Speaking to Agence France-Presse, Dimitri Rogoff, president of the Normandy regional fisheries committee, said that around 100 French boats were planning to go to the port of Saint-Hélier, the capital of Jersey, on Thursday to show their discontent. The French Ministry of the Sea said it had asked the European Commission, which has the sole right to negotiate with the UK, for "clarifications". 
> 
>**No agreement on fishing quotas** 
> 
>A Commission spokeswoman told Agence France-Presse on Monday evening that "any conditions" had to be notified with sufficient notice for the other party to "comment or adapt". "Furthermore, such conditions cannot discriminate against our fishermen," she said, confirming that the Commission would contact the British authorities. 
> 
>The situation is further complicated by the fact that Brussels and London have still not been able to agree on the adoption of fishing quotas for stocks shared between the EU and the UK for 2021. 
> 
>In its statement, Jersey also "regrets" the decision of the Normandy region and the departmental council of La Manche, "to close their representation" in the Channel Islands located in Saint-Hélier, Jersey. 
> 
>In a joint press release, the two French authorities justified the closure of this "Maison de Normandie", which houses "the honorary consulate of France", by their desire to "demonstrate their incomprehension and discontent" with regard to the fishing conditions imposed by Jersey.