Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Zoupa]

Not at all. There needs to be a reason for said extension. .

Oh come now that's just being unfair.

Not sure if serious. From what I read the mood in Brussels seems to be "fuck that noise".

The Brits are going to need a good reason to ask for an extension.

[Valmy]

Not at all. There needs to be a reason for said extension. .

Oh come now that's just being unfair.

Not sure if serious. From what I read the mood in Brussels seems to be "fuck that noise".

The Brits are going to need a good reason to ask for an extension.

He is obviously being sarcastic.

[Valmy]

What's the point?  Will the situation be different a few months down the line?

The longer we delay brexit the more kids get a chance of starting their lives and the more the  demographics and general attitudes shift against brexit ever happening.

They already rejected a second referendum.  Brexit it will happen.

So much for non-binding referendums.

[Zanza]

About two years apart. 

[mongers]

Brexit isn't an isolated single important issue, if it were there'd be more chance of a parliamentary agreement. But it happens in a wider context filled with people's ambitions.:

The Hardline Brexiter's and the ERG see Brexit as the golden opportunity to re-balance UK politics towards the right. They don't care what chaos a disorderly brexit will create, they'll not be personally affected and they can blame it all on the failing May government and the evil EU trying to wreck the UK.

Opportunistic Tories MPs, Johnson and every 2nd member of the cabinet see it as the door to premiership, they're already jockeying for position, now that May is going within the next few months or even weeks.

Corbyn's core labour party wants to use Brexit as an opportunity to rubbish the tories, force a general election and win political power. Many of them aren't that bothered about the Brexit outcome one way or another.

May is determined to go down in history as the PM who rescued the UK from a disaster, but seems to lack most of the necessary horse-trading skills to build a parliament coalition. So she's now almost left with having tried her best and failed, as a her political obituary.

The SNP want to stay in the EU, but in the background is the consideration that a Brexit or chaos gives them the chance to come to Scotland's rescue with a new independence vote. Something the majority of Scots don't want, but after this likely disaster, who knows how people with feel about another vote to dissolve the union?

The Unionists are just enjoying being the centre of attention and milking if for all it's worth, 1.5 billion and counting.

'Sinn Fein' are waiting in the wings, there may be new 'opportunities'.

Which leaves us with whom, the Lib Dems, now not quite a dozen MPs and shortly in search of a new leader.

Oh and the probable majority of MPs who're decent human beings, but are stuck in a near impossible situation with no clear leadership to lead them and the wider country away from chaos.   

[Josquius]

One thing May has proven quite good at it is sticking to power. I wouldn't count her out until there is an election.

What's the point?  Will the situation be different a few months down the line?

The longer we delay brexit the more kids get a chance of starting their lives and the more the  demographics and general attitudes shift against brexit ever happening.

They already rejected a second referendum.  Brexit it will happen.

They rejected including a left field amendment for it today because the timing isn't right. Even many of the leaders of the push for a people's vote didn't vote.

Odds are still there that brexit will happen and it will suck. But we continue to resist and things look a lot more hopeful than last week.

[Tamas]

Brexit isn't an isolated single important issue, if it were there'd be more chance of a parliamentary agreement. But it happens in a wider context filled with people's ambitions.:

The Hardline Brexiter's and the ERG see Brexit as the golden opportunity to re-balance UK politics towards the right. They don't care what chaos a disorderly brexit will create, they'll not be personally affected and they can blame it all on the failing May government and the evil EU trying to wreck the UK.

Opportunistic Tories MPs, Johnson and every 2nd member of the cabinet see it as the door to premiership, they're already jockeying for position, now that May is going within the next few months or even weeks.

Corbyn's core labour party wants to use Brexit as an opportunity to rubbish the tories, force a general election and win political power. Many of them aren't that bothered about the Brexit outcome one way or another.

May is determined to go down in history as the PM who rescued the UK from a disaster, but seems to lack most of the necessary horse-trading skills to build a parliament coalition. So she's now almost left with having tried her best and failed, as a her political obituary.

The SNP want to stay in the EU, but in the background is the consideration that a Brexit or chaos gives them the chance to come to Scotland's rescue with a new independence vote. Something the majority of Scots don't want, but after this likely disaster, who knows how people with feel about another vote to dissolve the union?

The Unionists are just enjoying being the centre of attention and milking if for all it's worth, 1.5 billion and counting.

'Sinn Fein' are waiting in the wings, there may be new 'opportunities'.

Which leaves us with whom, the Lib Dems, now not quite a dozen MPs and shortly in search of a new leader.

Oh and the probable majority of MPs who're decent human beings, but are stuck in a near impossible situation with no clear leadership to lead them and the wider country away from chaos.   

I would also list my suspicion that Corbyn and Mcdonell would be quite alright with either a hard brexit or a no deal chaos. It would be far easier for them to enact what they really want to do with the country.

[Josquius]

Disagree massively there. Though you do get some of the thicker people on the left believing this.
There's nothing in EU law against nationalised industries. Most of Europe has state ran railways.
And most importantly its pretty hard to get anything done if you have no money

[Tamas]

Disagree massively there. Though you do get some of the thicker people on the left believing this.
There's nothing in EU law against nationalised industries. Most of Europe has state ran railways.
And most importantly its pretty hard to get anything done if you have no money

No I get that. But Corbyn has always been anti-EU AFAIK. And the key thing is a total lack of a higher authority where people or companies can run to, and something resembling a clean slate because how many things are regulated by the EU instead of British laws.

The very same reasons why the far-right longs for a no-deal crashout: the same tools that could be used for Singapore-on-Thames can also be used for Venezuela-on-Thames.

[Grey Fox]

The EU should delay as many times as needed for UK to go nevermind with that Brexit and then ask for the UK to join completly including currency.

[Tamas]

and then ask for the UK to join completly including currency.

Yeah but for that the UK would need to leave first.

[Josquius]

Disagree massively there. Though you do get some of the thicker people on the left believing this.
There's nothing in EU law against nationalised industries. Most of Europe has state ran railways.
And most importantly its pretty hard to get anything done if you have no money

No I get that. But Corbyn has always been anti-EU AFAIK. And the key thing is a total lack of a higher authority where people or companies can run to, and something resembling a clean slate because how many things are regulated by the EU instead of British laws.

The very same reasons why the far-right longs for a no-deal crashout: the same tools that could be used for Singapore-on-Thames can also be used for Venezuela-on-Thames.

Corbyn has always been euroskeptic for sure, but I don't believe the version that takes this to mean anti EU.
Look at his voting record and he generally just didn't show up to work when EU related stuff was being voted on. The impression I get from him is very much one that it is an issue he doesn't care about or see as important.
Which in 2019 isn't great at all. But better than being one of those actively pushing for no deal.

Nobody on the left wants Venezuela on Thames. Some on the right do but they're largely just useful idiots for those who want Singapore on Thames.
Stockholm on Thames is more where Labours policies lie.

One fundamental thing I do like about Corbyn is that he is a democrat and follows the labour party consensus. This is very definitely vehemently against no deal.

[Tamas]

You feel a tribal obligation to make excuses for Corbyn, I get that.

But he is simply terrible. Crisis such as this really help to see true qualities and he is not measuring up at all. The only question is whether this is because he has motives he needs to hide so deeply that it results in this inept inaction, or that he is just inept.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Tetchy Grandad; has a well-kept allotment though, with prize-winning marrows.

[Iormlund]

They rejected including a left field amendment for it today because the timing isn't right.

It will never be right. Your only hope now is that Bercrow refuses to put May's deal up for yet another vote.