Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[citizen k]

Guardian quoting a regional German newspaper:

All this hue and cry ... is only continuing to make British politicians and their people continue to look quite ridiculous. May has been demoted to a supplicant on the starting day of the EU summit.

I wonder if this will be seen later as the final end of the Empire... The time when the momentum from its existence finally ran out.

The British Empire is long gone if that's the empire you're referring to. If you're talking about the Commonwealth, I don't think that's disappearing anytime soon.

[Tamas]

Guardian quoting a regional German newspaper:

All this hue and cry ... is only continuing to make British politicians and their people continue to look quite ridiculous. May has been demoted to a supplicant on the starting day of the EU summit.

I wonder if this will be seen later as the final end of the Empire... The time when the momentum from its existence finally ran out.

The British Empire is long gone if that's the empire you're referring to. If you're talking about the Commonwealth, I don't think that's disappearing anytime soon.

50 or so years is not that giant a timeframe historically. You build up certain economic reserves and more importantly prestige reserves that can carry on even after the de facto fall.

Up until Brexit, people with surface knowledge of Britain would think of the Queen, the ceremonies, the calm people. Now they think Brexit and wilful self-destruction and are puzzled by the Brits, not respecting them. Imho.

[Josquius]

Its definitely fair to say that the less...with it, portion of the British population still think the UK is as powerful as it was during the times of empire.
Pretty sure some of them even think the commonwealth is basically subservient to the UK.

[Syt]

Austrian state broadcaster says that May left the EU summit in Brussels without comment. Apparently there had been an announcement that there would be a statement, but she just walked past the assembled press and got into her limousine.

[Josquius]

Austrian state broadcaster says that May left the EU summit in Brussels without comment. Apparently there had been an announcement that there would be a statement, but she just walked past the assembled press and got into her limousine.

Not even a "Fuck"?

[Syt]

EU leaders have since spoken with press, saying that the negotiated deal is the only one on the table and that they wouldn't change it.

[Zanza]

The prime minister shredded goodwill at a question and answer session with her 27 counterparts, who had arrived in Brussels promising to help her but were amazed when she turned up without any developed requests or ideas.

Accounts of the meeting suggest the prime minister's speech in which she called for help to get the agreement "over the line" was repeatedly interrupted by Angela Merkel asking her what she actually wanted from them.

Senior UK government officials admitted that the prime minister did not bring any documented proposals with her to the meeting.

The approach puzzled EU diplomats, who for days before the conference had said they needed to see what proposals Ms May had come up with before they could respond to her request for aid.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-angela-merkel-scraps-plan-meeting-juncker-european-council-summit-a8682786.html

[Threviel]

The prime minister shredded goodwill at a question and answer session with her 27 counterparts, who had arrived in Brussels promising to help her but were amazed when she turned up without any developed requests or ideas.

Accounts of the meeting suggest the prime minister's speech in which she called for help to get the agreement "over the line" was repeatedly interrupted by Angela Merkel asking her what she actually wanted from them.

Senior UK government officials admitted that the prime minister did not bring any documented proposals with her to the meeting.

The approach puzzled EU diplomats, who for days before the conference had said they needed to see what proposals Ms May had come up with before they could respond to her request for aid.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-angela-merkel-scraps-plan-meeting-juncker-european-council-summit-a8682786.html

Can anyone say what she should have been wanting? What could she have requested that would have been enough to get the deal through parliament?

[Josquius]

Realistically it would have to be something to soften the brexit and make the customs union more permanent. Only on that side of things could there possibly be enough support. The hard brexiters don't have the numbers.
But given most of that support would be from labour who are pushing for a new election that still likely wouldn't have helped. She is screwed.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Its definitely fair to say that the less...with it, portion of the British population still think the UK is as powerful as it was during the times of empire.
Pretty sure some of them even think the commonwealth is basically subservient to the UK.

But is it?

I have never encountered such views. What is really common, however, is insularity and a desire to keep foreigners out of our business.

[Oexmelin]

It's an interesting question - because if Tyr is wrong, we still have to explain the subtext of prominent Brexiters who were all but implying the UK could dictate its terms to the EU. It seems a very close cousin to the sentiment in the US that Trump echoes, of having been taken advantage of all these years. Or, else, that subtext has been a cynical manipulation from Brexiters - but then, for what?

As an aside, it's my first time back in the UK in many years, and the level of "Rah Rah Britain" does seem quite higher in public discourse and even advertising, even as London's cultural diversity seems to have increased. But these are just superficial observations.

[Richard Hakluyt]

British politicians constantly babble about "punching above our weight" and the "special relationship" with the USA; but, again, one doesn't tend to hear such things from the people. I really think that our elite has a very false idea here.

The insularity needs to be stressed; these people have no interest in European culture whatsoever. My anger with leading brexiters concerns their lies to this ignorant group of voters. There are valid reasons for wanting to leave the EU but it is going to cost us economically. The masses have already had a shit 10 years since the financial crisis; so to get the brexit vote over the line it was necessary to pretend that leaving the EU would be easy.

The cynicism is breathtaking.

[Tamas]

I think on the long term it's a horrible idea to leave the EU.

The world is increasingly dominated by super-states. the US, China, India, and the EU block (economically if nothing else). Even Russia although they punch way above their true weight thanks to the nuclear threat.

It will be impossible to define a country's position without in relation to one of these blocks. And how can something stronger be accomplished than actually being an equal part of one of them?

[Syt]

and even advertising

What do you mean?

[Tamas]

To be fair, every country does crap like that.