Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Josquius

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 06, 2018, 10:43:06 AM
Her entire record with local government was abysmal.

Why waste unnecessary words?
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Agelastus

Quote from: Tyr on September 07, 2018, 04:25:22 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 06, 2018, 10:43:06 AM
Her entire record with local government was abysmal.

Why waste unnecessary words?

Because he has a more nuanced, less biased and generally more accurate view than you do of the period in question?

And other than the implication I take from his post that the rates did not need reforming I don't disagree with what he says concerning the Tories failures with local government in the period at all. Nor with his assessment of the consequences. Despite the fact that I have family members who supported the introduction of the "Community Charge" (poll tax.)
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on September 06, 2018, 10:43:06 AM
Meaningful service on a town council had been an important route for many "ordinary" people to enter politics. Being a mere functionary of central government was far less attractive so the quality of councillors declined and more of them were party hacks. This led to a reduction in class diversity in the House of Commons as more and more of them came from lawyering or a spell as a SPAD. Which , of course, is why we are in our current mess and the Commons has no conception of how 52% of the population think.


Kind of similar to the decline of the curiales in the Roman Empire.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Josquius

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Iormlund

A lot of that might be fallout from Dieselgate. We're 20% below nominal capacity right now because of uncertainty about new diesel standards and inability of petrol engine manufacturing to meet demand.

That not to say everything is peachy. We are in fact closing down operations in the UK in 2019.

Tamas

Tusk says a gentle but firm NO on the Chequers deal, May says there's nothing else on table.

The Larch

Quote from: Tamas on September 20, 2018, 09:28:52 AM
Tusk says a gentle but firm NO on the Chequers deal, May says there's nothing else on table.

Chequers was dead on arrival and May knew it, but still insisted on it. Blame's on her.

Zanza

Quote from: Tamas on September 20, 2018, 09:28:52 AM
Tusk says a gentle but firm NO on the Chequers deal, May says there's nothing else on table.
The negotiation partner says no, significant parts of her party say no, the opposition says no, the public says no. She is almost certain to face humiliation. I wonder if there is a way to fudge it somehow so she can save face.

Anyway, she has basically two choices now: compromise her position or walk away. I doubt the EU will compromise its position in a significant way. They may accept some technical changes on the Irish backstop to move checks etc. away from the border. But that's about it.

The Larch

#7103
Quote from: Zanza on September 20, 2018, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 20, 2018, 09:28:52 AM
Tusk says a gentle but firm NO on the Chequers deal, May says there's nothing else on table.
The negotiation partner says no, significant parts of her party say no, the opposition says no, the public says no. She is almost certain to face humiliation. I wonder if there is a way to fudge it somehow so she can save face.

Yet they say no for different reasons, for the EU it's too much, for the Tory hard core Brexiteers is not enough. Until May understands that she can't please both her backbenchers and the EU, there's no way to reach an agreement.

QuoteAnyway, she has basically two choices now: compromise her position or walk away. I doubt the EU will compromise its position in a significant way. They may accept some technical changes on the Irish backstop to move checks etc. away from the border. But that's about it.

Thing is, compromises might be reached in finer details, but not on principles, and Chequers still aimed to cherry pick which parts of the common market the UK would be part of, ie, having their cake and eating it, when everyone from the EU side made it super clear that they wouldn't allow that.

The Larch

QuoteMay: EU criticism of Chequers plan is 'negotiating tactic'

British PM tries to downplay criticism of UK proposals by European leaders at Salzburg summit

FFS, it is not a negotiating tactic.

Zanza

May seems to have been blindsided and genuinely surprised by the EU's rejection. I wonder if that is denial or ignorance. Everybody else could see that coming from months or years ago as the position on no cherry-picking has been stated since before the referendum...

Richard Hakluyt

Quote from: Zanza on September 20, 2018, 04:19:17 PM
May seems to have been blindsided and genuinely surprised by the EU's rejection. I wonder if that is denial or ignorance. Everybody else could see that coming from months or years ago as the position on no cherry-picking has been stated since before the referendum...

Yes, it was baffling that there was so much contention here over a plan that was clearly going to be rejected by the EU  :hmm:

Is she really that dumb or is some deeper game being played?

Valmy

I think it must be a political ploy. Smart politicians never submit deals they know will be rejected, they would work it out behind closed doors first. So clearly she wanted it to be rejected for some reason.

Or she just might be an idiot but how would somebody that incompetent climb to the top of the Tory Game of Thrones?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Recall that May wasn't exactly up against a formidable set after Gove stabbed Boris.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

mongers

#7109
Don't worry chaps, she has a VERY cunning plan.

"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"