Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Richard Hakluyt]

There is a developing scandal concerning Commonwealth citizens who arrived as children in the period 1948-71 and have since failed to regularise their entry :

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/immigrants-uk-caribbean-immigration-hostile-environment-a8300236.html

There is a petition which can be signed by British citizens and foreigners resident in Britain (link in article). I urge people who meet the criteria to sign and help get it to 100k signatures so that the matter is debated in Parliament.

[celedhring]

So your visa prevents you from starting the clock for citizenship? Seems a bit draconian.

Well it prevents clock from starting on permanent residence so yeah in most cases thus delays citizenship (bar things like marriage). Also, as far as I can tell, I'm due to be booted from the UK in 2 years time for at least a year, unless I marry, become a student, have a large amount of venture capital or start getting paid over £120k a year.

Gotcha.

Over here you don't need permanent residence for citizenship, just legal residence. But unless you're from a hispanic country (and some other cases) it's a really long wait: 10 years.

[garbon]

So your visa prevents you from starting the clock for citizenship? Seems a bit draconian.

Well it prevents clock from starting on permanent residence so yeah in most cases thus delays citizenship (bar things like marriage). Also, as far as I can tell, I'm due to be booted from the UK in 2 years time for at least a year, unless I marry, become a student, have a large amount of venture capital or start getting paid over £120k a year.

Gotcha.

Over here you don't need permanent residence for citizenship, just legal residence. But unless you're from a hispanic country (and some other cases) it's a really long wait: 10 years.

Yeah its one of the reasons that I'm looking at potentially the student life as it would, from what I can tell but would need to get legal advice, prevent me from having to remain outside of the UK for a year. After finishing my degree then would be eligible for employment again.  Do need to get my ass in gear figuring out this year so that 2019 will then be going through whatever process I need to do.

HR has said something vague about switching my visa type but I'm not sure they know what they are talking about. Only recently brought up when my boss wanted to have a chat about my long-term development and I was like well where will I be based in a couple years?

[The Larch]

Garbon, are you really considering to stay in the UK long term? I assumed it was something temporary because of the job opportunity and you planned to go back to the US at some point.

[Tamas]

So your visa prevents you from starting the clock for citizenship? Seems a bit draconian.

Well it prevents clock from starting on permanent residence so yeah in most cases thus delays citizenship (bar things like marriage). Also, as far as I can tell, I'm due to be booted from the UK in 2 years time for at least a year, unless I marry, become a student, have a large amount of venture capital or start getting paid over £120k a year.

Gotcha.

Over here you don't need permanent residence for citizenship, just legal residence. But unless you're from a hispanic country (and some other cases) it's a really long wait: 10 years.

IIRC, to apply for citizenship here, you need to have been for at least 1 year eligible for permanent residency. And you need 5 years of being here to request permanent residency, so that means 6 years.

As I understand, having a permanent residence status paper is beneficial but not necessary to apply for and gain citizenship. We are going to see with my wife near the end of this year - I was told they have stopped giving out permanent residency statuses to EU citizens as we will have our special untermensch ID cards after Brexit anyways. So I don't want to try it needlessly.

[celedhring]

So your visa prevents you from starting the clock for citizenship? Seems a bit draconian.

Well it prevents clock from starting on permanent residence so yeah in most cases thus delays citizenship (bar things like marriage). Also, as far as I can tell, I'm due to be booted from the UK in 2 years time for at least a year, unless I marry, become a student, have a large amount of venture capital or start getting paid over £120k a year.

Gotcha.

Over here you don't need permanent residence for citizenship, just legal residence. But unless you're from a hispanic country (and some other cases) it's a really long wait: 10 years.

Yeah its one of the reasons that I'm looking at potentially the student life as it would, from what I can tell but would need to get legal advice, prevent me from having to remain outside of the UK for a year. After finishing my degree then would be eligible for employment again.  Do need to get my ass in gear figuring out this year so that 2019 will then be going through whatever process I need to do.

HR has said something vague about switching my visa type but I'm not sure they know what they are talking about. Only recently brought up when my boss wanted to have a chat about my long-term development and I was like well where will I be based in a couple years?

Can they move you somewhere else while you wait out that year? I have seen companies do that occasionally (i.e. a friend of mine just got moved to his company's Madrid offices from Miami while he sorts out his transfer to a different Visa).

[garbon]

Garbon, are you really considering to stay in the UK long term? I assumed it was something temporary because of the job opportunity and you planned to go back to the US at some point.

That's a bit of my struggle as I don't know what my long-term plan. I do think by my mid-40s that I'll want to be back in California but that's still more than a decade away.

So I'm that bit of a pickle of being faced with a blank slate and being uncertain on begin.

[garbon]

So your visa prevents you from starting the clock for citizenship? Seems a bit draconian.

Well it prevents clock from starting on permanent residence so yeah in most cases thus delays citizenship (bar things like marriage). Also, as far as I can tell, I'm due to be booted from the UK in 2 years time for at least a year, unless I marry, become a student, have a large amount of venture capital or start getting paid over £120k a year.

Gotcha.

Over here you don't need permanent residence for citizenship, just legal residence. But unless you're from a hispanic country (and some other cases) it's a really long wait: 10 years.

Yeah its one of the reasons that I'm looking at potentially the student life as it would, from what I can tell but would need to get legal advice, prevent me from having to remain outside of the UK for a year. After finishing my degree then would be eligible for employment again.  Do need to get my ass in gear figuring out this year so that 2019 will then be going through whatever process I need to do.

HR has said something vague about switching my visa type but I'm not sure they know what they are talking about. Only recently brought up when my boss wanted to have a chat about my long-term development and I was like well where will I be based in a couple years?

Can they move you somewhere else while you wait out that year? I have seen companies do that occasionally (i.e. a friend of mine just got moved to his company's Madrid offices from Miami while he sorts out his transfer to a different Visa).

I've floated that perhaps they could stash me in Ireland (close by) or Berlin (close to many of our clients) for a year.

Also, staying with this company, I know they could find a position for me back in the US (as my boss is the president of our division) but in all likelihood it'd be a step-down from my current role. So that's last case resort really. Unless they want me to start the San Diego office.

[Josquius]

Berlin is the top gay city in Europe right?
Rather great for normies too. I'd jump at a chance of a job there.

[garbon]

Berlin is the top gay city in Europe right?
Rather great for normies too. I'd jump at a chance of a job there.

There are a lot of gays there. And yeah, in general, I think Berlin is a really cool city.

[garbon]

There is a developing scandal concerning Commonwealth citizens who arrived as children in the period 1948-71 and have since failed to regularise their entry :

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/immigrants-uk-caribbean-immigration-hostile-environment-a8300236.html

There is a petition which can be signed by British citizens and foreigners resident in Britain (link in article). I urge people who meet the criteria to sign and help get it to 100k signatures so that the matter is debated in Parliament.

Some good news.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/16/theresa-may-caribbean-representatives-windrush-immigration

Some Windrush immigrants wrongly deported, UK admits
Immigration minister concedes errors as PM appears likely to make U-turn on issue

The government has admitted that some people from the Windrush generation have been deported in error, as Theresa May appears set to make a U-turn on the issue.

The immigration minister Caroline Nokes conceded that some residents who answered the call to come to the UK to work in essential services in the 1950s and 60s had been deported for not having the right documents.

She told ITV News: "There have been some horrendous situations which as a minister have appalled me."

Asked how many people had been deported, Nokes said: "I don't know the numbers. But what I'm determined to do going forward is say we will have no more of this. We want people to have confidence to come to the Home Office. We want to give them a message of reassurance, because I value these people."

The prime minister will meet representatives of 12 Caribbean countries this week to discuss the immigration problems experienced by some British residents of the Windrush generation, in an apparent climbdown.

Downing Street said the prime minister deeply valued the contribution of Commonwealth citizens who moved to the UK many decades ago and stressed that nobody with a right to be in the country would be made to leave.

No 10 had initially rejected a formal diplomatic request from the 12 countries, which are in London for the Commonwealth heads of government meeting (Chogm) this week, giving the impression that the May government was not taking the problem seriously.

There is growing unease among politicians about the situation, which has affected an unknown number of people who arrived in the UK as children, but never formally naturalised or applied for a British passport.

Downing Street's change of heart followed the publication of a letter sent to May and signed by more than 140 MPs from across the political spectrum. The letter expressed concern about the many long-term British residents incorrectly identified as being in the UK illegally.

Sajid Javid, the communities secretary, tweeted on Monday: "... This should not happen to people who have been longstanding pillars of our community. The government is looking into this urgently."

Downing Street said May had only become aware of the request on Monday morning and confirmed that she would be holding a meeting "at the earliest possible opportunity" with the Caribbean leaders.

Her official spokesman said: "She deeply values the contribution made by these and all Commonwealth citizens who have made a life in the UK and is making sure the Home Office is offering the correct solution for individual situations.

"She is aware that many people are unlikely to have documents that are over 40 years old and is clear that no one with the right to be here will be made to leave."

The spokesman said the Home Office would look at individual cases with "great sensitivity".

"Each situation may well be different but we need to make sure that we have the support there to help people through the process," he said.

When asked whether the prime minister would apologise over the issue, he said: "If there are ways we can make the process better then of course we will, if there are problems that people have been put through, that clearly would be a matter of regret."

The issue will be discussed on the fringes of Chogm.

Amber Rudd, the home secretary, is expected to provide more details in a statement in the Commons on Monday afternoon.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yes, it seems that the government is completely caving in on this one :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43780621

They perhaps figured out that even most Daily Mail readers are appalled by this sort of thing.

The documentation requirements are pretty rigorous for the period preceding 1980 or so; lots of ordinary people didn't have bank accounts in those days for example.

[Tamas]

I must say this is one of those things that would not have happened if the UK had mandatory ID cards like most European states.  These people would have encountered at least one situation over the decades where an ID card was needed, and their status would have had to be resolved before they could be granted one.

While I appreciate and value the general sentiment behind their lack, I think the lack of ID card, and even an address card like you have in Hungary, is perhaps just a tad bit too much inconvenience for too little gain in personal liberty

[garbon]

I must say this is one of those things that would not have happened if the UK had mandatory ID cards like most European states.  These people would have encountered at least one situation over the decades where an ID card was needed, and their status would have had to be resolved before they could be granted one.

While I appreciate and value the general sentiment behind their lack, I think the lack of ID card, and even an address card like you have in Hungary, is perhaps just a tad bit too much inconvenience for too little gain in personal liberty

Of course, there's an option that doesn't necessitate a loss of liberty.

[Josquius]

I must say this is one of those things that would not have happened if the UK had mandatory ID cards like most European states.  These people would have encountered at least one situation over the decades where an ID card was needed, and their status would have had to be resolved before they could be granted one.

While I appreciate and value the general sentiment behind their lack, I think the lack of ID card, and even an address card like you have in Hungary, is perhaps just a tad bit too much inconvenience for too little gain in personal liberty

Yep.
Pretty sure it was the same people who scream about immigrants who also shouted loudest against ID cards.
Certainly even if there is no mandatory carried ID card involved you'd think the UK would follow practically everywhere else and have mandatory address registration.