Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Valmy]

All that money is going to the NHS right?

[Gups]

Wow, the EU negotiators have absolutely smashed the Brits. I don't think they've had to make a single teeny weeny compromise so far.

[celedhring]

Wow, the EU negotiators have absolutely smashed the Brits. I don't think they've had to make a single teeny weeny compromise so far.

Happens when you raise your bets while holding just a pair.

Nonetheless, hopefully we can resolve the EU citizens/Ireland situation quickly and move on to the next stage. I honestly can't see how we can untie that particular Irish knot, though.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Wow, the EU negotiators have absolutely smashed the Brits. I don't think they've had to make a single teeny weeny compromise so far.

Happens when you raise your bets while holding just a pair.

Nonetheless, hopefully we can resolve the EU citizens/Ireland situation quickly and move on to the next stage. I honestly can't see how we can untie that particular Irish knot, though.

There will be a queue of people wanting to play poker with David Davis after this 

[Tamas]

Wow, the EU negotiators have absolutely smashed the Brits. I don't think they've had to make a single teeny weeny compromise so far.

Happens when you raise your bets while holding just a pair.

Nonetheless, hopefully we can resolve the EU citizens/Ireland situation quickly and move on to the next stage. I honestly can't see how we can untie that particular Irish knot, though.

Why would the EU side need to make any compromises? The UK has no position of strength.

[Jacob]

Why would the EU side need to make any compromises? The UK has no position of strength.

Because the EU cares about Ireland, since it's a member state, and Ireland would prefer not to see the Troubles restarting if and when Brexit tears up one of the cornerstones of the Good Friday Accords.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yes, the Ireland situation is a real question, with serious downsides if a solution is not found.

I've always thought the money question was spurious; it is unfortunate that the debts exist but reneging on them was never a real possibility.

Going back to Ireland, the only solution I can think of (for the soft/non-existent border) is for the UK to remain in the EU 

[Tamas]

Why would the EU side need to make any compromises? The UK has no position of strength.

Because the EU cares about Ireland, since it's a member state, and Ireland would prefer not to see the Troubles restarting if and when Brexit tears up one of the cornerstones of the Good Friday Accords.

Yes but  the compromise there will come from the British side, changing the status of NI within the UK, so that NI will stay in the single market but the UK won't.

There is no other way. Staying in the single market for the entire country is not feasible politically. Nor it is for the EU to be taken for a ride and turning the UK into a backdoor to the single market for all kinds of cheap unregulated third world crap via NI.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I don't see internal passport and custom controls being a real possibility; with the caveat that with the current government almost any foolishness is possible.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Also note that 59% of NI exports went to the UK as opposed to only 15% to Ireland :

https://fullfact.org/economy/60-northern-irelands-exports-go-rest-uk/

[Tamas]

Also note that 59% of NI exports went to the UK as opposed to only 15% to Ireland :

https://fullfact.org/economy/60-northern-irelands-exports-go-rest-uk/

It almost sounds like being member of the EU is the most convenient state of affairs for the UK economically and politically, and trying to leave is a mistake of historical proportions.

[Josquius]

Trade with the rest of Ireland has only had 20 years to develop though to be fair.

It's not the actual economic loss that is the big worry but the huge gains in terms of attitude that open borders give.
As things stand unionists can pretend they're fully in the UK whilst nationalists can pretend they're fully part of the Republic and everyone is happy.

[Archy]

Can't the UK do a Switzerland for NI?
Free movement of EU/ citizens into NI, but not free movement of goods?
Trucks will neet to be checked at North Irish/Irish border but citizens would go through like a breeze?
Checkpoints at the ferries leaving for Great Britain for EU citizens and seperate quick lane for NI to Great-Britain.
I suppose the free movement of citizens would be the most important for the Irish?
And with free movement of goods off course Brexit would mean nothing.

[Tamas]

Can't the UK do a Switzerland for NI?
Free movement of EU/ citizens into NI, but not free movement of goods?
Trucks will neet to be checked at North Irish/Irish border but citizens would go through like a breeze?
Checkpoints at the ferries leaving for Great Britain for EU citizens and seperate quick lane for NI to Great-Britain.
I suppose the free movement of citizens would be the most important for the Irish?
And with free movement of goods off course Brexit would mean nothing.

Would the DUP stand for such a solution?

[Zanza]

Would the DUP stand for such a solution?

No.

Ian Paisley, the Democratic Unionist Party MP, has launched a scathing attack on the Irish government branding its call for Northern Ireland to remain in the customs union and single market as "disgraceful".

He said they were happy to take £7bn bailout during the financial crisis in 2010 from Britain and need to act "as good neighbours and as friends" instead of "undermining" relations.

Speaking at the Northern Ireland affairs select committee in Westminster on Wednesday, he said if Ireland continued to propose divergence between the region and the rest of the United Kingdom, they should be "punished" with a "long, tenuous and hard" negotiation on a fisheries deal post Brexit.


The DUP is implacably opposed to anything that will separate them from the rest of the UK.

Last week the party, which holds the balance of power at Westminster, said it will use its parliamentary muscle to prevent any special post-Brexit deal for Northern Ireland that could "decouple" the region from the rest of the UK.

Paisley told the committee people were "exasperated" with the Dublin government.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/nov/29/pmqs-brexit-divorce-bill-grayling-defends-paying-massively-increased-brexit-divorce-bill-saying-uk-shouldnt-just-walk-away-politics-live