Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Josquius

I miss the days when the tories looked to be on the brink of death :(
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grumbler

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 10, 2016, 04:17:03 PM
Average hourly earnings in NYC are 33.14 as opposed to 25.61 nationally.  About 30% higher.
Median rental costs for a 1 BR apartment in NYC are $3510 as opposed to $1120 nationally.  About 213% higher.
And there's the rub.

I disagree.  The high rental prices are a symptom of "the rub," they are not the rub themselves.  The rub lies in whatever is preventing the market from responding to high demand for 1 BR apartments with an increase in supply of 1 BR apartments.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Agelastus

Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2016, 06:26:35 AM
I miss the days when the tories looked to be on the brink of death :(

I didn't think you were related to Grumbler - you can actually remember 1846? :huh:
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."

Valmy

Quote from: Agelastus on August 11, 2016, 07:27:50 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2016, 06:26:35 AM
I miss the days when the tories looked to be on the brink of death :(

I didn't think you were related to Grumbler - you can actually remember 1846? :huh:

A good year for Tyr. Repealing the Corn Laws made more workers available for coal mining.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Josquius

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Valmy

#3710
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2016, 07:54:30 AM
Blair era.

I will say for awhile there I wondered if the election arithmetic was fatally against the Tories. 2010 seemed like an absurdly improbably upset unlikely to be repeated. But now the SNP has denied Labour Scotland almost entirely, amazingly, and now Labour is collapsing all over. Mind boggling.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: grumbler on August 11, 2016, 07:22:01 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 10, 2016, 04:17:03 PM
Average hourly earnings in NYC are 33.14 as opposed to 25.61 nationally.  About 30% higher.
Median rental costs for a 1 BR apartment in NYC are $3510 as opposed to $1120 nationally.  About 213% higher.
And there's the rub.

I disagree.  The high rental prices are a symptom of "the rub," they are not the rub themselves.  The rub lies in whatever is preventing the market from responding to high demand for 1 BR apartments with an increase in supply of 1 BR apartments.

I'm not quite sure what that is. I mean, I'm glad Manhattan isn't likely to become an island of tower blocks like Hong Kong.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2016, 08:09:53 AM
I'm not quite sure what that is. I mean, I'm glad Manhattan isn't likely to become an island of tower blocks like Hong Kong.

And it is not like that made Hong Kong realestate super affordable.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on August 11, 2016, 08:10:27 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 11, 2016, 08:09:53 AM
I'm not quite sure what that is. I mean, I'm glad Manhattan isn't likely to become an island of tower blocks like Hong Kong.

And it is not like that made Hong Kong realestate super affordable.

I guess the rub is that the island is not big enough?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Tamas on August 11, 2016, 03:44:28 AM
I just can't get the general attitude: "anti-austerity" means making your country "work better" by spending borrowed money, which surely should be done on a case by case basis not to base your entire existence on doing it.

Anti-austerity in this context means that when government bonds are being sold to investors at *negative yields* the market is sending the message that it might not be unreasonable to spend some money on infrastructure projects that put people to work and improve growth potential, as opposed to figuring out the most inventive ways to make poor people even poorer, or alternatively completely denude the national defense.

The problem with Corbyn is that he is red nutbag with a martyr streak and all the charisma of dessicated moose turd.  Not that he is anti-austerity
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: grumbler on August 11, 2016, 07:22:01 AM
I disagree.  The high rental prices are a symptom of "the rub," they are not the rub themselves.  The rub lies in whatever is preventing the market from responding to high demand for 1 BR apartments with an increase in supply of 1 BR apartments.

The rub lies in whatever is preventing the market from responding to high demand for 1 BR apartments with an increase in supply of 1 BR apartments that will rent for less than $3500 .

And the question is what is that?  The assumption that more supply will lower price will not hold if more supply increases demand.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

garbon

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 11, 2016, 09:55:55 AM
The problem with Corbyn is that he is red nutbag with a martyr streak and all the charisma of dessicated moose turd.  Not that he is anti-austerity

Tell us how you really feel.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

The Brain

Moose turds should be fresh and scentally vibrant.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Agelastus

#3718
Quote from: Valmy on August 11, 2016, 07:58:51 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2016, 07:54:30 AM
Blair era.

I will say for awhile there I wondered if the election arithmetic was fatally against the Tories. 2010 seemed like an absurdly improbably upset unlikely to be repeated. But now the SNP has denied Labour Scotland almost entirely, amazingly, and now Labour is collapsing all over. Mind boggling.

Agreed, and I honestly don't understand how it's reversed so much in England as well (it's not just the vanishing of Scotland that caused Labour to lose the last election but the change in how effective their English vote was.)

But issues with election arithmetic is much different to a party on the brink of death. Tyr's letting nostalgia and wishful thinking get in the way of what actually happened in that era.

Whereas in 1846 their was an actual split in the Tories that kept them largely out of office for 30 years.

In fact, Tyr should be regretting that UKIP didn't rise 10 years before it did as that could have given a viable alternative for anti-EU Tories to jump ship to. :hmm:
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."

Admiral Yi

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 11, 2016, 09:55:55 AM
Anti-austerity in this context means that when government bonds are being sold to investors at *negative yields* the market is sending the message that it might not be unreasonable to spend some money on infrastructure projects that put people to work and improve growth potential, as opposed to figuring out the most inventive ways to make poor people even poorer, or alternatively completely denude the national defense.

The problem with Corbyn is that he is red nutbag with a martyr streak and all the charisma of dessicated moose turd.  Not that he is anti-austerity

AFAIK Gilts are not selling at negative interest rates, the UK is at full employment, and regardless of the interest rate principle still needs to be paid back or refinanced at maturity.