Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[mongers]

I am still amazed by the total failure of politics in a mature democracy.  This is the sort of bullshit you see in Argentina or Greece.

No, it's two prime ministers putting internal party politics ahead of the national interest and then every other political leader failing to understand the dangers in the brexit process.

So not a total failure, there's still a chance the moderate politicians will act in the face of this far-right shift in UK politics.

Who are the moderate politicians?

I don't have to prove a negative so to speak.

All of this a plague on all of your houses is getting tiresome, by that I mean people writing off all politicians as corrupt or self-serving. And it's a narrative that the 'man in the street' is loving harping on about.

There are plenty of decent politicians in parliament, it's unfortunate that the barely functioning government is now the plaything of the extreme right.

[mongers]

Theresa May basically attacked parliament in a very populist and authoritarian speech. All this taking back control for her was always about more government power, not more democracy. Shows her real personality.

Indeed and Tamas can fill us in on the details of how this develops further.

[Razgovory]

I am still amazed by the total failure of politics in a mature democracy.  This is the sort of bullshit you see in Argentina or Greece.

No, it's two prime ministers putting internal party politics ahead of the national interest and then every other political leader failing to understand the dangers in the brexit process.

So not a total failure, there's still a chance the moderate politicians will act in the face of this far-right shift in UK politics.

Who are the moderate politicians?

I don't have to prove a negative so to speak.

All of this a plague on all of your houses is getting tiresome, by that I mean people writing off all politicians as corrupt or self-serving. And it's a narrative that the 'man in the street' is loving harping on about.

There are plenty of decent politicians in parliament, it's unfortunate that the barely functioning government is now the plaything of the extreme right.

I wasn't asking you to prove a negative.  You said that a moderate politician could still act.  I can't help but ask you who that politician is.

Putting this all on the extreme right seems disingenuous.  It's not like there was just a small handful of Neo-Nazis who voted.

[Syt]

If somehow Britain decided it wanted to remain after all, the EU states would have to approve it, right?  Not automatic?

The UK can rescind Article 50 unilaterally, according to a recent ruling from the ECJ.

They were told to deliver that ruling, so I guess the system works.

Who told them to deliver that ruling? The Commission argued differently.

Besides, the ECJ is not an EU institution, but a pan-European one (hence why e.g. Russia occasionally gets dragged in front of it).

[Richard Hakluyt]

I am still amazed by the total failure of politics in a mature democracy.  This is the sort of bullshit you see in Argentina or Greece.

No, it's two prime ministers putting internal party politics ahead of the national interest and then every other political leader failing to understand the dangers in the brexit process.

So not a total failure, there's still a chance the moderate politicians will act in the face of this far-right shift in UK politics.

I think I have said this before, the "chaos" I regard as a good thing. The leaders of our two main parties are people who put their party (and the most tribalistic and sectarian parts of their parties) ahead of the country. For parliament to tamely roll over and indulge them would have been a far worse thing than the chaos.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Petition to revoke A50 for UK voters (and residents?) to sign if they like. Made me feel marginally better :

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Thanks. First petition I've ever signed, online or otherwise.

410k and counting 

[Tamas]

I think I have said this before, the "chaos" I regard as a good thing. The leaders of our two main parties are people who put their party (and the most tribalistic and sectarian parts of their parties) ahead of the country. For parliament to tamely roll over and indulge them would have been a far worse thing than the chaos.

Good point.


As for May, she is not dangerous IMHO, she is unpopular both with MPs and the people. Who will come after her following 3 years of concentrated effort to erode trust and respect for parliamentary democracy is the big question.


She sure is growing increasingly desperate. She can't let go of power but no way she seriously thinks her party will have her as their next PM-candidate following a speech like that. Even Tories must have a degree of self-respect.

[garbon]

dangerous /ˈdānj(ə)rəs/
adjective
a) able or likely to cause harm or injury
b) likely to cause problems or to have adverse consequences

Seems like those would adequately describe May's tenure.

[Tamas]

I meant it as a reply for Monger's suggestion that she may turn into one of these democracy-abolishing strongpersons.

[Tamas]

I am worried about the apparent detachment from reality by large number of MPs though. Apparently a "cross party consensus" is building over implementing a Norway++ system where we stay in the single market and we get a super special customs union with the EU.

1. That could be negotiated while under the currently proposed withdrawal agreement. They totally not understand what the present trouble is about.

2. Do they seriously think the EU will agree to restart 2 years worth of negotiations in literally the last moment, if by some miracle they manage to scrape together a tight majority for a single motion opposed by the government?

[Richard Hakluyt]

The petitions website has crashed due to the volume of traffic :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/petitions-site-crashes-after-thousands-back-call-to-revoke-article-50

[alfred russel]

The petitions website has crashed due to the volume of traffic :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/petitions-site-crashes-after-thousands-back-call-to-revoke-article-50

I have heard that some people signing the petition are not actually UK citizens, and are actually eastern Europeans working in the UK.

[Tamas]

UK residents are allowed to sign in fact you can indicate whether you're a citizen or a resident, Alfred Dorsey Guller.

[Syt]

Btw, it's been 1,000 days since the Brexit vote.

[alfred russel]

UK residents are allowed to sign in fact you can indicate whether you're a citizen or a resident, Alfred Dorsey Guller.

Sounds like I heard correctly then.