Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Tamas]

OK should have used the word norms not rules.

I guess at the end of the day it boils down to preferences. I am disgusted by the kind of person Johnson is, but a lot of people clearly stil consider him an endearing weirdo.

[Tonitrus]

That tradition is still sort of there with councillors though - only a few councillors are full time. Many council meetings happen in the evening, most councillors are part-time and there is an expectation that employers should allow someone time if they're also a councillor.

Indeed, when I was in the UK, the The Right Worshipful the Mayor of the City of Lincoln (also a councillor) also worked as a janitor in our building. 

[Sheilbh]

I really enjoyed Duncan Robinson's column for the Economist this week for International Men's Day but forgot it until I saw a clip doing the round of I'm A Celebrity, where they had this year's lad/himbo extolling therapy and talking about your feelings which reminded me:

Who speaks for the Great British Lad?
The old lad is dying; the new lad cannot be born

Nov 17th 2022

Bagehot woke up fully-clothed, face-down in a Novotel in Leicester on Saturday morning. The curtains were open and the lights were on. An evening in search of the Great British Lad had ended abruptly when two Peronis, four pints of Madri (a trendy lager aimed at middle-class football fans), a daiquiri, a woo-woo, a vodka Red Bull, two vodka lemonades and two rounds of tequila left your correspondent without time to put on his pyjamas.

The hunt for the Lad is worthy of such in-depth reporting. In the 1990s, the Lad ruled all. There was a tv show called "Men Behaving Badly". Effigies of England footballers were hanged after they made errors. People now regard that era as if it were as alien as the "Black and White Minstrel Show", yet it was not long ago. Britain's largest newspaper, the Sun, had topless women on page three until the mists of 2015.

Today, a different Lad is on top. Phrases such as "toxic masculinity" have gone from niche academic terms to overused. Prince Harry evolved from a party-animal squaddie into a mental-health advocate. England footballers, once dismissed as thick louts, are now hailed as thoughtful, even rather sweet boys. Advertisements have shifted from lager-soaked legends to real men talking about being depressed. ("It takes big balls to say you're not ok" is the slogan of Big Balls gin.) As Gramsci did not put it: the old lad is dying and the new lad cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.

Observing those symptoms is a man known online as Pu55yman_Dan, who has developed a cult following among football fans and was Bagehot's guide for the evening. While the typical Lad professes progressive values loudly, he argues, "scratch beneath the surface, they're not". And so Pu55yman_Dan adopted the online persona of a football fan who tries, but fails, to fit in with the new strain of Lad.

Lads of the old regime have leapt on the new one with dizzying speed. Dapper Laughs, a notorious comedian, now posts videos imploring men to examine their mental health and check in on their mates. "You're a geezer," he says in one. "If you needed to hear that, I'm glad I said it." This is some change from his previous content: among other highlights, he once posted a picture of a pair of testicles in a box of eggs.

The new masculinity creates a peculiar moral licence. Young men realise that some abusive patter is no longer allowed, although they are not always sure which. In his hit "Doja", which reached number two this summer thanks to TikTok virility, Central Cee, a rapper from London, attacked homophobia with lashings of misogyny instead: "How I can be homophobic/My bitch is gay". (The 24-year-old clarified: "It's literally what I say. I'm not homophobic. My girlfriend is bisexual.")

Cynicism about the corporate purveyors of the new masculinity is understandable. Companies have fallen over themselves to raise awareness of men's mental health. As a result, it risks becoming the next health and safety: a well-meaning and potentially hugely successful policy intervention that ends up mocked. Both are about stopping men dying. It is almost entirely men who die at work; the vast majority of people who kill themselves are male. But it is odd for capital to put its arm around labour and ask "You alright, mate?" Sometimes the messenger is the problem, rather than the message. Or as Pu55yman_Dan put it to the tune of Abba: "Gimme gimme gimme a Madri at midnight/Won't somebody help me with my men's mental health."

Young men are a strange group, in that both left and right see their flaws, whether joblessness or toxic behaviour, as individual failings rather than structural ones. This is unhelpful and unfair, argues Richard Reeves, the author of "Of Boys and Men", a new book on the state of males. If men are committing suicide in large numbers and are well behind women educationally in almost every country, there may be structural factors at play, which require structural solutions such as letting boys start school a year later.

Lads do not make themselves easy to understand. Politically, the Lad is odd. Age is the main game when it comes to voting, with older voters supporting the Conservatives and younger ones backing Labour, regardless of sex, points out Chris Curtis, a pollster. But not when it comes to the Lad. Nearly 30% of 18- to 24-year-old men voted Conservative at the last election, compared with only 15% of women, says YouGov, a polling organisation. Polling of young men is not gospel. They are difficult to recruit and often give joke answers. A margin of error becomes a margin of banter.

Tomb of the Unknown Lad

Young people do tend to be more progressive than their parents. When it comes to the Lad, he is less progressive than some might think. In 2016, 39% of 18- to 24-year-old men voted Leave, compared with 20% of women that age; lockdown scepticism was most common among young men. The prevailing portrayal of a young man in the media as a soppy left-wing undergraduate at a protest is misleading. It could just as well be the Lad who, in the words of the Sun, "put flare up bum, drank 20 ciders, snorted coke and then stormed Wembley for England vs Italy Euro 2020 final". Incidentally, Pu55yman_Dan has a master's degree, bridging the Lad gap. The Lad is large. He contains multitudes.

And so in Fan Club, an exceptionally sticky-floored venue in Leicester, a steady stream of young men say hello to Pu55yman_Dan, who is a minor celebrity among men aged between 18 and 35 who like football and live in the East Midlands. A perplexed friend looked on, wondering why strangers demanded photos with his mate and why a journalist had been buying him drinks all night. A little later, Pu55yman_Dan threw up in his vodka lemonade, leaving a streak of yellow in his glass. Nevertheless, he persevered and stayed out until 3am. Bagehot, however, was defeated and went to bed. ■

The gender gap in polling is interesting and new for British politics. Historically in the UK the gender gap has been the reverse of most western countries, the Tory vote has (until the last election or two) been more female and the Labour vote more male. I think that pattern was once common across the western world but has lingered in the UK for a lot longer than anywhere else from what I've read. There are signs that's starting to shift but perhaps particularly among the young.

But also while there is anxiety about lads in the UK, the whole weird masculinity thing going on in the US right (Tucker Carlson's ball tanning masculinity specials etc) seem very different from anything here. Although I still suspect cross-fit is a bit of a vector to conspiracy minded extremism

[Admiral Yi]

They stopped the tits!

[Tamas]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/19/keir-starmer-i-will-abolish-house-of-lords-to-restore-trust-in-politics

Keir Starmer will abolish the House of Lords and replace it with a new elected chamber as part of plans to "restore trust in politics", the Observer understands.

In a sweeping constitutional overhaul, the Labour leader has told the party's peers that he wants to strip politicians of the power to make appointments to the Lords as part of the first-term programme of a Labour government. Starmer said that the public's faith in the political system had been undermined by successive Tory leaders handing peerages to "lackeys and donors".

It is understood that Labour will hold a consultation on the composition and size of a new chamber as well as immediate reforms to the current appointments process. Final proposals will be included in the party's next election manifesto.

It comes after a series of rows over peerages. Boris Johnson made a number of controversial appointments, including his friend Evgeny Lebedev, who owns the Evening Standard. He is expected to appoint political allies and junior aides as part of a forthcoming list.

Meanwhile, Liz Truss is also said to be planning a resignation list of new peers despite a disastrous leadership that lasted just seven weeks.

In a meeting last week, Starmer told Labour peers that there was now strong support for reform of the Lords, both across party lines and among the public. He outlined "some very clear principles" for reform, including that any new chamber should be elected by voters rather than appointed by politicians.

"I want to be clear that we do need to restore the trust of the public in every part of the United Kingdom in our system of government," he said. "House of Lords reform is just one part of that ... People have lost faith in the ability of politicians and politics to bring about change – that is why, as well as fixing our economy, we need to fix our politics."

He added that it should be "truly representative" of the UK's nations and regions, meaning it should have a clear role in safeguarding devolution. However, he also said that his proposals would ensure it should not replace any of the functions of the House of Commons, remaining a second chamber charged with amending and scrutinising legislation. The Commons would retain exclusive powers over the public finances and the formation of governments.

The proposals will also set out much stronger devolved powers, as part of a review of Britain's constitutional arrangements overseen by Gordon Brown, the former prime minister.

Starmer told party peers on Wednesday that he regarded reforming the Lords as a critical part of his agenda aimed at "promoting inclusive growth and restoring trust in politics". While he said that they would continue to play a "vital role" in the campaign to win the next election, reform was needed to show the public that Labour would provide a fresh start after a series of Tory scandals.

He pointed to Johnson's recent use of his power to appoint peers as showing the need for reform. He said Johnson's plans to reward "lackeys and donors" made him the latest in a long line of Tory prime ministers who have played party politics with the Lords and ridden roughshod over the appointments system: "We should be rebuilding trust in politics, but this can't just be an article of faith – we need to show how we will do things differently. Reforming our second chamber has to be a part of that."

Johnson has recently handed a peerage to Michael Hintze, a leading Tory donor, and previously awarded one to Lebedev. He is now said to be planning to hand more to the ultra-loyal MPs Nadine Dorries, the former culture secretary, and Nigel Adams, a former Cabinet Office minister and longtime supporter.

Johnson's resignation honours list, which has not yet been announced, is also said to include his advisers Ross Kempsell, 30, and Charlotte Owen, a former assistant to Johnson believed to be in her late 20s.

Starmer had pledged to abolish the Lords as part of his leadership campaign, and to "replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations". Doubts were later raised about his commitment to the promise after he abandoned other elements of his leadership pitch. However, it is understood he now sees reform of the Lords as necessary to demonstrate that Labour would represent a decisive change from the Conservatives.

Starmer's comments suggest that he is backing many of the ideas drawn up by Brown's review. It is understood to support replacing the Lords with an upper house of nations and regions. It is also said to have backed a new round of devolution, including handing new economic and taxation powers to new independent councils of the nations and for England. Brown wants local mayors to have more power over education, transport and research funding.

During the meeting with peers, Starmer also made clear that he wanted to reposition Labour as "pro-business, pro-growth and can offer Britain a bright future", adding: "We will be out there showing the public that there is a different way to this failed Tory economics ... Britain has so much potential. Labour will harness it so we can lead the world again.

Labour has already announced that Starmer backs banning MPs from carrying out paid consultancy work as a way of improving ethical standards. He would also replace the ministerial code with an updated code of conduct. The party's plans appear to include an entirely elected second chamber, but the details of the reforms have not yet been agreed.

The last big attempt to reform the Lords came under the coalition government led by David Cameron. Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader and deputy prime minister, eventually had to abandon the plans in the wake of a humiliating Tory rebellion. His proposals would have seen 80% of peers elected and the total number of members cut to 450.

[The Larch]

But also while there is anxiety about lads in the UK, the whole weird masculinity thing going on in the US right (Tucker Carlson's ball tanning masculinity specials etc) seem very different from anything here.

Don't forget the weird obsession with masturbation on far right groups like the Proud Boys.

[Sheilbh]

But also while there is anxiety about lads in the UK, the whole weird masculinity thing going on in the US right (Tucker Carlson's ball tanning masculinity specials etc) seem very different from anything here.

Don't forget the weird obsession with masturbation on far right groups like the Proud Boys.

It's so weird! When I saw the Tucker Carlson clip I searched for a while because I was convinced it had to be a spoof.

I think you get some of the stuff around wanking and paleo in the cross-fit circles but it's not got the weird "crisis of masculinity" angle.

As the article says, here the anxiety around young men is more around mental health, de-stigmatising it and the whole "it's ok to not be ok", "put an arm round your mate and check if they're okay" kind of thing.

[The Larch]

But also while there is anxiety about lads in the UK, the whole weird masculinity thing going on in the US right (Tucker Carlson's ball tanning masculinity specials etc) seem very different from anything here.

Don't forget the weird obsession with masturbation on far right groups like the Proud Boys.

It's so weird! When I saw the Tucker Carlson clip I searched for a while because I was convinced it had to be a spoof.

I think you get some of the stuff around wanking and paleo in the cross-fit circles but it's not got the weird "crisis of masculinity" angle.

As the article says, here the anxiety around young men is more around mental health, de-stigmatising it and the whole "it's ok to not be ok", "put an arm round your mate and check if they're okay" kind of thing.

I don't really see the crossfit angle, to be honest. 

Feel like including the protein shake industry and mags like Men's Health into it? 

[Sheilbh]

I don't really see the crossfit angle, to be honest. 

Feel like including the protein shake industry and mags like Men's Health into it? 

Npt yet

But I think there's a link with the part of the whole self-improvement, fitness angle of (especially) far-right groups. Not saying all cross-fitters are Nazis just that it can be a vector - especially if your politics suddenly start worrying about "declining" masculinity, "soft men make hard times", slight paramilitary overtones etc.

Plus Marjorie Taylor-Greene as Crossfit gym owner

I think a bit like the anti-vax stuff - if you'd asked me 5-10 years ago to guess the politics of people obsessing about fitness, natural eating, paleo meat and nuts etc, giving up masturbation for health and tanning their balls I would have assumed probably on the hippie left. But that whole spectrum has flipped in the US (a bit like how Trump made so many lefties in the US suddenly big fans of the FBI ). That whole thing I find a bit weird/striking in the last few years (and I think it's going to have longer-term effects).

[Josquius]

Reading the lad article and again yep. Toxic masculinity is a huge problem.
It's a global thing to some extent but the UK has it particularly bad. This is a major factor in me not wanting to see my son grow up here beyond the first years of primary school at the most.

A lot gets made by the far right about how young working class white men are so ill served. It's sad that they've so hijacked and warped this issue as there is an underlying point there and problems to tackle which are very different to the ones they claim.

[Iormlund]

They stopped the tits!

Brexit finally makes sense.

[Sheilbh]

Latest iteration of the "up the Ra" chant when a woman at an event posed for a selfie with Arlene Foster then started doing the chant. Foster moved on and was not happy about it - on the one hand to be expected because she's a unionist. But particularly difficult given that her father was shot in front of her as a child by the IRA and her school bus was bombed by them too.

It gets to what is a bit of a paradox about post-GFA Ireland that as societies become more post-conflict, they become less aware of each other's sensitivity. I think the hope (from a nationalist perspective) was taht common cultural perspectives would grow. But instead you're seeing more of a meme-ish Republicanism and unionism (e.g. more bonfires than ever around the "Glorious Twelfth"). So as the comfort and expectation of peace deepens, it seems that at the same time so does the expressions of difference and community identity.

No idea what to make of it or how to escape that trend - it doesn't seem unique to Northern Ireland but I feel like I've read similar things about the Balkans or Lebanon. It's that issue of power sharing based on communal identity being essential for peace but institutionalising and reinforcing the communal divides. I've no idea whether there's a better, practical alternative.

[Sheilbh]

Saw in the FT that office occupancy has halved compared to pre-pandemic levels - which seems incredible. But it makes sense given the shift to WFH and certainly in my industry 2-3 days at home is the norm now.

It mentions that there are practical and technical challenges with this - but I hope someone's looking at whether they can be converted into housing as it might be a bit easier in already existing buildings.

Maybe old office buildings will end up being converted look cool industrial/warehouse spaces and the next Shad Thames is a business park?

[celedhring]

Saw in the FT that office occupancy has halved compared to pre-pandemic levels - which seems incredible. But it makes sense given the shift to WFH and certainly in my industry 2-3 days at home is the norm now.

It mentions that there are practical and technical challenges with this - but I hope someone's looking at whether they can be converted into housing as it might be a bit easier in already existing buildings.

Maybe old office buildings will end up being converted look cool industrial/warehouse spaces and the next Shad Thames is a business park?

I'm a freelancer so I never worked at the office, but the amount of in-person meetings that I attend has dropped down significantly. It has gone from one a week to maybe one a month, and sometimes not even that.

[The Larch]

Saw in the FT that office occupancy has halved compared to pre-pandemic levels - which seems incredible. But it makes sense given the shift to WFH and certainly in my industry 2-3 days at home is the norm now.

To me that was pretty clear that office rentals were going to be a huge casualty of the pandemic if WFH took root. It's certainly an industry that I don't think will ever recover.

It mentions that there are practical and technical challenges with this - but I hope someone's looking at whether they can be converted into housing as it might be a bit easier in already existing buildings.

That's something that I've read on the papers that is already being done over here, converting former offices into housing in cases when that's suitable.

Maybe old office buildings will end up being converted look cool industrial/warehouse spaces and the next Shad Thames is a business park?

I guess that large office buildings in the downtown areas of the cities will still be a feature as it's also a bit of a status signs for large companies, but I'd assume that smaller office parks in the suburbs will become much more deserted in the future.