Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Zanza]

In Sweden postal services were demonopolized 25 years ago.

Similar timeline here. The former state company kept the monopoly on letters for ten more years though. They used the profits from that to buy DHL, Danzas, Exel etc.

[Josquius]

I bet, if the railroads got renationalised and turned to shit in 10 years, you'd find some private contractor delivering toilet rolls for station bathrooms to blame the whole thing on.

Actually the railways as they are now are a pretty similar to the post office.
Its not some little thing in the post office that was privatised that screwed up. Even calling the post office nationalised is a debatable statement considering the way it works.

I mean the railways were not popular when they were nationalised. They're used far more now.

British people like the idea of nationalised services, just like we like the idea of high quality public services. There's no sign we're willing to pay for either.

Pretty unfair comparison though considering the railways were nationalised during an era in which rail was seen as old fashioned and being steadily wound down with closure after closure. In the mid 20th century it was seen that cars were the future and economic development generally leaned towards shrinking the cities and growing the sprawl.
The world learning better and rail coming back into fashion and starting to grow again coincided with the UK's disastrous privatisation. That you can see the same rise in interest in rail elsewhere in the world too is pretty good evidence that correlation doesn't equal causation in the UK.

For the UK at its current level of development a nationalised railway is the only sensible way to go. Whether they should have ever been nationalised in the first place or not is a valid question but with the situation as it is now, the answer is clear.

[Tamas]

Can someone explain to me this Scottish exam results row?

Did they, due to the pandemic, used an algorithm to determine pupils' scores based on teachers' predictions, and it ended up deciding that kids in poorer areas can't possibly be as good as the teachers said?

That would be such a priceless mix of the class system with 21st century technology. 

[Sheilbh]

Can someone explain to me this Scottish exam results row?

Did they, due to the pandemic, used an algorithm to determine pupils' scores based on teachers' predictions, and it ended up deciding that kids in poorer areas can't possibly be as good as the teachers said?

That would be such a priceless mix of the class system with 21st century technology. 

I think they're now back-tracking and opening it up to appeal which is the right thing to do.

This year pupils' grades will be based on their predicted grade by the teacher (in England they will also be allowed to sit their exams in September/October and they get to keep whichever grade was higher - not sure about Scotland). But there's normally moderation of exams. Scotland's way of moderating was to adjust teacher's predicted grades based on the school's average performance over recent years. So basically they decided to mark the schools not the pupils.

Schools in more deprived areas have a worse record so their grades were far more likely to be reduced and likely to be reduced by more (some kids had their grades lifted).

In general the SNP have a dreadful record on education and if politics were normal in Scotland/not defined by the independence then education would be a huge issue in Scottish politics.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Scotland was famous for centuries for having a better education system than England despite its poverty; I'm surprised that even SNP voters go so easy on the party for allowing Scotland to fall behind England.

[Sheilbh]

Scotland was famous for centuries for having a better education system than England despite its poverty; I'm surprised that even SNP voters go so easy on the party for allowing Scotland to fall behind England.

In part it's a consequence of free tuition - there's a hard cap on the number of places at university and, as ever, the middle class are more able to game the system than the working class and poor. So in Scotland middle class students are 4 times more likely to go to university than working class students (as agains about 2.5 times in England and 3 times in Wales and Northern Ireland). The general participation rate in higher and further education is lower in Scotland than any of the other nations. There's a huge issue in Scotland of the link between social background and educational attainment - even more than the rest of the UK both at school and after.

The Scots government measure their results by "positive destinations" and say 95% of school-leavers end up in a "positive destination", which is true. But the definition includes fixed term contracts and zero-hours contracts. It reminds me of some of the law schools in England which boast of their "employed one year after graduating" stats but then hire a lot of their ex-students in data entry roles every academic year at around about the time they do those stats.

There's almost nothing in UK politics that annoys me more than the high regard progressive English people hold the SNP government in. At their best they're the good side of a sort-of New Labour/Fianna Fail dominating centrist-populist party, at their worst they're just like the bad side of New Labour/Fianna Fail

But they've somehow managed to convince everyone they're a great left-wing cause only held back by Westminster

[Richard Hakluyt]

"But they've somehow managed to convince everyone they're a great left-wing cause only held back by Westminster "

This is indeed deeply irritating. Somehow "England" gets reduced to a bunch of upper-class toffs and the social history of places like Liverpool, Yorkshire and Tyneside is completely ignored. Oh well, I guess everyone else is peddling this sort of lie nowadays.

[Sheilbh]

"But they've somehow managed to convince everyone they're a great left-wing cause only held back by Westminster "

This is indeed deeply irritating. Somehow "England" gets reduced to a bunch of upper-class toffs and the social history of places like Liverpool, Yorkshire and Tyneside is completely ignored. Oh well, I guess everyone else is peddling this sort of lie nowadays.

And of course the opposite happens. "Scotland" is actually best represented by the tenements of Glasgow and the poor crofters of the Highlands, they were actually one of the victims of British colonialism () and the crimes of their ruling class (such as the Clearances) can be explained by how Anglicised they were. I fully expect to see cybernat discourse somehow blaming the English for the uniquely nasty and lengthy Scottish sectarianism soon

I also get very annoyed at Irish people playing about this because if there's one part of the world that should be able to smell the bullshit of that Scottish historical narrative, it's the island of Ireland

[celedhring]

"But they've somehow managed to convince everyone they're a great left-wing cause only held back by Westminster "

This is indeed deeply irritating. Somehow "England" gets reduced to a bunch of upper-class toffs and the social history of places like Liverpool, Yorkshire and Tyneside is completely ignored. Oh well, I guess everyone else is peddling this sort of lie nowadays.

Yeah, it's the same shit that gets peddled by Catalan nationalists. Which is hilarious given Catalonia has had more right wing governments than Spain.

[Sheilbh]

Extraordinarily the English government has watched the unfolding Scottish grades crisis and decided to, somehow, go for something that may be equally as bad. It's like they were sitting on the porch watching a massive multi-car pile up happen in front of them, then they calmly wander over to the garage and deliberately drive, at pace, into the flaming mess

Decision on A-level and GCSE appeals a 'rolling disaster', say teachers
School leaders say plan to allow pupils in England to use mock results fails to address issues
Students will find out the grades they have been awarded on Thursday.
Sally Weale
Published on Wed 12 Aug 2020 14.55 BST

Teachers and school leaders in England have reacted with anger to the government's 11th-hour decision to allow mock exams as a route of appealing against A-level and GCSE grades, describing developments as "a rolling disaster" and "a national outrage".

The fudged announcement was made just hours before this year's A-level results were delivered to schools. They will be published on Thursday and 250,000 students will find out the grades they have been awarded, based on an algorithm conceived by the regulator Ofqual in the absence of exams.

Early feedback from school leaders, anxiously reviewing their results, indicates there is likely to be widespread disappointment and claims of unfairness. One headteacher said in the most extreme case one of her students had been downgraded from a C to a U as a result of the standardisation process. Another said pupils who made progress since GCSE had lost out significantly.

One school leader said his pupils' results confirmed "the intrinsic unfairness in the system" drawn up by Ofqual. Many are finding results have been marked down by one grade. Few – if any – however, thought mocks were the solution.

"We've had poor sets of results in the past where you feel miserable and you think you've let students down. Today the feeling is one of anger," said Alan Brookes, chair of the Kent Association of Headteachers and the executive head of Fulston Manor school in Sittingbourne.

"We are angry because we've done everything we think we can. But you can't look children in the eye tomorrow and say 'you got what you deserved'. Tomorrow, I fear there will be a lot of students going, 'I didn't deserve that. That's not fair.' I think they will feel awful."

Brookes, who has been in teaching for 44 years and a headteacher for 24, described developments on exam results as a rolling disaster. "I believe that the results being issued to schools this morning ahead of tomorrow's publication are demonstrating the intrinsic unfairness in the system that has been devised.

"Not only does it penalise individual students who have worked exceptionally hard only to find themselves downgraded by an algorithm constructed to produce a national statistical model that is in some way deemed to be 'acceptable', it also demonstrates a continuing lack of trust in the profession and fails to recognise the work that schools have put into moderating their own centre-assessed grades ahead of submission."

On mocks, he said: "The incredibly late announcement of changes to the system given by the secretary of state last night – four days after universities were issued with the results – does little or nothing to address the problems.

"The suggestion of using mock grades completely fails to recognise the wide disparity between how such grades are reached – schools complete these at different times, some set whole unseen papers, others certain sections – and also misunderstands that many will use these results as a motivational tool for students, potentially depressing grades to provide a 'wake-up call'.

"Very few students fail to improve their grades between mocks and final exams – that is largely the point of them – so suggesting that this measure provides reassurance is simply wrong."

Richard Sheriff, the executive headteacher of Harrogate grammar school and chief executive of the Red Kite Learning Trust, said: "To wake up to news that the secretary of state has made a decision to change the way grades are awarded is truly shocking.

"The fact that the we learnt about this via the media and there has been no consultation, communication or consideration given to the profession feels like a huge blow to the relationship we have with our government.

"The use of 'mock examinations' to award grades is totally inappropriate. Indeed it is impossible for those subjects and centres who have not had the opportunity to have a 'mock' this year. You can imagine the confusion and disappointment for students and parents, let alone the panic at universities as they try and deal with this set of events."

Theo Nickson, co-headteacher of Bishop's Hatfield girls' school in Hatfield, Hertfordshire, said the idea of using mock results was ludicrous. "This is an absolutely ridiculous idea. We've not received any guidance on this – who will validate the mocks? I can't for the life of me see how they can make mocks work."

Nickson, who said she understood the need for a standardisation process, said results for her school showed a number of grades had been changed – including one student whose results went down from a C to a U, which will be the subject of an appeal, as well as a number of upgrades. More striking, however, was the difference between awarding bodies. Two made no changes to centre-assessed grades – in other words, teacher assessments – a third made a small number of changes, and a fourth "made a lot".

Nevertheless, as long as there was the scope to appeal where required, Nickson said: "I actually feel relatively confident that students will get what they need to move on."

One media studies teacher at a secondary school in north London, who asked not to be named, said: "We all know that mock exam results tend to be lower than a student's actual final exam result. Students develop hugely in knowledge and understanding of the topic as a result of these mocks. I feel anxious and concerned that their hard work won't be fully recognised. These are hard times and they need every support we can give them."

A head of history at a large London comprehensive said in his entire 11-year teaching career he had never encountered a student who performed better in their mocks than the real event in June. "Mock exams are specifically designed to challenge students while they are still part-way through the syllabus, and department heads like me deliberately set tougher grading systems than the ones used by the exam boards in the summer.

"It's impossible for mock exams to be a fair reflection of student ability, and offering students the 'opportunity' to use their mock results in place of a computer-generated average result is unfair and inadequate. This glib decision is going to negatively impact tens of thousands of young people. It's a national outrage."

Admittedly English students, from my understanding have teacher assessed grades (with moderation), mock results or can sit the exams this autumn and can then pick the highest grade they received which is a bit more flexible than what was in place in Scotland (who have now reversed all the moderation). But still...

[Josquius]

I thought they'd said you can't get lower than your mocks, you can take the calculation from the mock result or resit in October?

I wonder how the start of university will go...Freshers week is out for sure.

"But they've somehow managed to convince everyone they're a great left-wing cause only held back by Westminster "

This is indeed deeply irritating. Somehow "England" gets reduced to a bunch of upper-class toffs and the social history of places like Liverpool, Yorkshire and Tyneside is completely ignored. Oh well, I guess everyone else is peddling this sort of lie nowadays.

Annoys me to no end how they play the victim when its clear as day how much better they have it as you cross the border into Scotland.
Yorkshire seems to be a bit better but the North East doesn't help itself with a lack of a cohesive regional identity for many (blame football) and rampant English nationalism.

[Sheilbh]

I mean there is no national identity in these isles stronger than a well-lubricated Yorkshireman

[celedhring]

I mean there is no national identity in these isles stronger than a well-lubricated Yorkshireman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE

[Josquius]

I wonder if Yorkshire's (lack of) sporting prowess is something to do with it.
You don't get much pan-Lancashirism either. Liverpool and Manchester have it in for each other worse than anyone despite being natural allies.

[Sheilbh]

I wonder if Yorkshire's (lack of) sporting prowess is something to do with it.
You don't get much pan-Lancashirism either. Liverpool and Manchester have it in for each other worse than anyone despite being natural allies.

Yeah. But I feel like it's almost the opposite I mean I feel the Scouse/Manc identity is so strong they've kind of subsumed a lot of Lancastrian feeling I think (especially as the fringes have often become part of Greater Manchester plans or Metro Mayor areas etc). It probably shifts once you get to Lancaster/Morecambe and north but my feeling has always been that areas around Liverpool and Manchester define themselves in relation to Liverpool/Manchester. My impression is they are also getting better at working together which is good - so Burnham, Rotherham, Anderson etc work together on plans for the North-West (and ignore Cumbria/the Lancashire hinterland).

But Yorkshire I feel is maybe the opposite. They are incapable of working together - see the failure to get a South Yorkshire metro mayor because - and have huge political diversity, so North Yorkshire is big and empty and very, very Tory, South Yorkshire is post-industrial, urban, Labour. But there's such a strong sense of identity against the rest of the English regions - it's like a family they fight a lot internally but will put on a united front to the rest of the world.

Also I think population matters - the North-East is very small in population terms compared to most of the other regions. Yorkshire's population is bigger than Scotland's.