Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

Kind of ruins their pleas of "we aren't terrorists anymore!"

[chipwich]

How much does the fact that Republican Ireland is no longer a theocratic failnation affect the NI Issue?

[Sheilbh]

Not at all. The way to think of it is almost that the unionists are a separate national identity, so it's not just Catholicism and the role of the church that alienates unionists.

So for example one of the issues that caused the Stormont administration to collapse was language. Sinn Fein were pushing for and Irish Language Act, which was a red line for the unionists. In the end they compromised and there's going to be a law with a role for Irish and for Ulster Scots (part of unionist identity).

I've got an Irish friend who's fairly political and one of her favourite questions when she's speaking to other Irish people is: what compromises would you support to ensure unionists feel part of the state if there was unification? So an easy one is possibly re-joining the Commonwealth. Might have to change the national anthem and possibly introduce Ulster Scots as another official language. But that probably isn't enough.

[Sheilbh]

Can't see the original report because paywalled. But this is interesting:

MI5 rejects claims that officials withhold intelligence from Priti Patel
Informed security source says Sunday Times report quoting unnamed officials is untrue
Andrew Sparrow Political correspondent
@AndrewSparrow
Sun 23 Feb 2020 17.28 GMT
Last modified on Sun 23 Feb 2020 17.32 GMT


The Sunday Times quoted MI5 officials saying Priti Patel 'doesn't grasp the subtleties of intelligence'. Photograph: Reuters

MI5 has rejected claims that its officials are withholding information from Priti Patel because they do not trust her.

An informed security source said the report about Patel's relationship with the agency in the Sunday Times was "simply untrue" and that she was getting the same information from the agency as any other home secretary.

The report was published after a series of stories – which have not been fully denied – claiming that Patel has had a series of difficult relationships with officials during her ministerial career, and that she is currently trying to oust the permanent secretary at the Home Office, Sir Philip Rutnam.

The Sunday Times quoted unnamed officials claiming that MI5 found Patel "extremely difficult to deal with" and that she "doesn't grasp the subtleties of intelligence". One told the paper that she was now receiving less intelligence from MI5 than her predecessors as a consequence of her attitude.

Patel's allies believe that officials are briefing against her because they do not like being challenged.

MI5 often refuses to respond to newspaper reports about the agency, but on Sunday a security source with knowledge of the situation claimed that it was wrong to say that information was being withheld from the home secretary.

"Reports suggesting that the home secretary and MI5 do not have a strong working relationship are simply untrue," the source said. "The home secretary is briefed daily on intelligence matters in exactly the same way as any previous post holder. No information is being withheld. Any report suggesting otherwise is simply wrong and does not serve the public interest."

Patel was first appointed to the cabinet in 2016 as international development secretary, when Theresa May was prime minister. She was forced to resign the following year after it emerged that she had failed to tell No 10 about a series of meetings she had had with Israeli ministers while she was visiting the country for what was supposed to be a holiday.

Boris Johnson took Westminster by surprise when he promoted her from the backbenches to become home secretary last summer but, because of her reputation as a hardliner on Brexit and on law and order, the appointment was popular with the Conservative party.

Not to go full Trumpist on this, but I'm not convinced that it's the place of the security services to decide that their elected, civilian boss doesn't "grasp the subtleties" so should get less comprehensive briefings

[Admiral Yi]

I agree if it''s simply a matter of not grasping subtleties (man that's a crazy word to spell) then you have to give them all the dope and it's just to bad if stares blankly back at you.

On the other hand, there is the possibility they're raising a sotto voce concern that she's going to blab classified intel to the world.  Would that change the equation in your mind?

[Sheilbh]

I think if they've got a security concern then they should be able to go above that person's head to the PM.

But I think ultimately it's important that elected civilians are in charge of the security services and make the ultimate decision on who does or doesn't receive briefings following procedure and ultimately some form of oversight by the legislature. That's probably the way it should be even if there are security concerns about the people at the top (or we're in Wilson coup/James Angleton territory).

And deciding to disclose, or not, intelligence is a decision for elected civilians. They are entitled to move from the traditional UK position of "we don't comment on intelligence matters". Of course the intelligence agencies should take account of the preferences of civilians - so if they prefer to consume their intelligence briefings in one sided colouring-in maps, that's fine and probably limits the amount of detail they can really share.

Edit: Meanwhile latest poll:
Tories - 47%
Labour - 31%
Lib Dems - 9%
Greens - 4%
Brexit - 3%

[Syt]

https://lostintv.com/casting-call?id=64

[Tamas]

Looks like BBC doesn't want to lose its funding.

[Sheilbh]

Interesting piece on the linguistic challenges for Sinn Fein entering government:

Why Sinn Féin will not call the State by its name
Linguistic issue would pose a dilemma for a Sinn Féin minister or taoiseach
Ronan McGreevy

What's in a name? Quite a lot if you are engaged in the linguistic contortions Sinn Féin use to avoid calling the two political administrations on this island by their officially-recognised names.

"The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland, " declares Article 4 of the Irish Constitution though not for Sinn Féin for which Ireland is the politically divided island and not the State.

Neither will the party use the Republic of Ireland, or the Republic for short. This is, according to the 1948 Republic of Ireland Act, the description of the State though not its name.

Similarly, the name "Northern Ireland" is regarded as a British construct and is anathema to Sinn Féin supporters who prefer "north of Ireland" which sounds like a slip of the tongue but is intended to convey, in their eyes, the illegitimacy of the political entity north of the border.

This extends to its ministers in the Northern Executive not using the name Northern Ireland, though they are in government there.

Such use of language can seem "childish or bizarre", says Professor Jonathan Tonge of the University of Liverpool who has previously written about Sinn Féin's dilemma of "serving in a government of a northern state(let) whilst refusing to use the state(let's) name".

The language Sinn Féin uses to describe the Republic, or rather to avoid describing it, has come into sharper focus since the party won the largest share of votes in the general election.

In a long blog post on the An Phoblacht website after the poll, party chairman Declan Kearney referred to the Republic as the "Southern State" to which Irish Times columnist Kathy Sheridan responded in terms echoed by other people on social media: "If the objective really is change, an easy place for Sinn Féin to start would be with language. We do not refer to our Republic as 'the Southern State' or 'the Free State'. The name is Ireland."
 

In her column in An Phoblacht, Sinn Féin deputy leader Michelle O'Neill described the Republic as the "26 counties", while party activist Michael Doyle - the election agent of Waterford TD David Cullinane - exclaimed that "we broke the bastards. We broke the Free State" in a now notorious "Up the 'Ra" video that was posted online.

The linguistic contortions extend to the party's more mild-mannered housing spokesman Eoin Ó Broin. In his book Home: Why Public Housing is the Answer, he calls the Republic "Southern Ireland" - the same name given by the British to the shortlived entity which was created as a result of the Government of Ireland Act (1920) as a counterpoint to Northern Ireland.

Ó Broin explains: "Throughout the book the term South of Ireland refers to the entity officially known as the Republic of Ireland. Given that I am a Sinn Féin TD and committed Irish republican, I doubt you need me to explain the rationale for this."

But the reasons for the convoluted language are not always apparent to many people in the Republic.

"That language might come as a surprise to some people in the Republic of Ireland, but don't forget it was used in official Irish documents that would refer to the 'Six Counties'. That changed when Seán Lemass came into power," says Dr Peter McLoughlin, a lecturer in Irish politics in Queen's University Belfast.

"You still have a position where Sinn Féin are really committed ideologically and want to stress that to their supporters. It's a way for Sinn Féin constantly and subliminally in using those terms to continually convey the idea that partition is still there and they do not accept it."

The language choice is deliberate, adds Prof Tonge. "I think the discourse/terminology reflects a commitment to republican principles and a determination to be seen as committed," he explains.

"I understand why they would not use the term Irish Republic as a true Republic, in the Sinn Féin worldview, cannot be established until a 32-county united Ireland is established.

"There is a sensitivity regarding being seen as sellouts and also it's useful for Sinn Féin to continue to show its radicalism and difference from Fianna Fáil/Fine Gael in the terminology."

Both academics state that the language of republicans is changing. The phrase "occupied Six Counties" is a relic of the Troubles except among dissident republicans. Similarly, "Free State" and the people in it known as "Free Staters", is less used now and has been replaced by the phrase "26 counties".

This could be more than a matter of linguistics if Sinn Féin are the lead party in a future government.

"If you had a Sinn Féin taoiseach or a foreign minister, you would have to get some agreement on the terms to be used," says Dr McLoughlin.

"There is a constant calibration of language. There has been a continued evolution in the South. I guess those conversations will be ongoing."

Given that Sinn Féin president Mary Lou McDonald has aspirations to be taoiseach, what will be the name of the state in front of her when she sits down at the negotiating table with the 26 other EU leaders? Currently it is Éire/Ireland.Will she be the only EU leader at the table not to recognise the name of the state she is representing?

"I don't follow why they [Sinn Féin] don't the use term Ireland," says Prof Tonge. "It would be 'ideologically sound' as it represents the nation even if part of that nation is under the control of another sovereign power. It wouldn't cost Sinn Féin anything to simply use that term."

[Sheilbh]

Andrew Neil giving speech at Make UK (trade organisation for manufacturing). He said that Downing Street are apparently happy to see the end of complex, cross-border supply chains after Brexit: "those days are coming to an end". Apparently government sees rise of 3d printing and more domestic sourcing (partly due to environmental/air miles) as the future.

Which is a stance.

[Tamas]

Which is a stance.

It's more like a silly excuse. At least I hope so. Thinking the world is heading toward an isolated island being more viable than less, is dangerously crazy talk.

Unless 3D printers will be able to run on and utilise seawater to print stuff.

[Josquius]

Yes. I've noticed a fair trend lately for the right to pretend to care about green issues when it let's them bang the nationalist drum.
When its turning down trade with Germany in favour of Australia all green concerns are out the window of course.
Same as with many issues really. It's a big part of why they're so utterly detestable. Villains back in the day at least had principles.

[The Minsky Moment]

Andrew Neil giving speech at Make UK (trade organisation for manufacturing). He said that Downing Street are apparently happy to see the end of complex, cross-border supply chains after Brexit: "those days are coming to an end". Apparently government sees rise of 3d printing and more domestic sourcing (partly due to environmental/air miles) as the future.

Which is a stance.

"Air miles"? WTF?
Most manufactured goods travelling over seas move by ship.
The reference to 3D printing is almost a non sequitur.  Even if additive manufacturing can be improved to permit rapid mass production of component parts, the components still need to be assembled.  There is no reason to believe additive will necessarily evolve in a way that renders overseas supply chains obsolete, it may even reinforce them.

[Sheilbh]

"Air miles"? WTF?

That's me - I was thinking of a phrase for the manufacturing equivalent of food miles and went very much in the wrong direction

[Josquius]

As expected. The EU shockingly are not open to the UK becoming an backdoor  for shoddy American goods.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/25/keep-chlorinated-chicken-ban-to-win-trade-deal-eu-tells-uk