Hillary vs Bernie

[DGuller]

It reminds me of Vicky 2, where liberals get tired of oppression and demand "harassed parties" political reform.

[dps]

I'm not sure were slaves really citizens? They certainly didn't have any rights

I don't think that there was any legal theory before the Civil War that held that slaves were citizens.  Being both would have pretty much been an contradiction.  Certainly there were a good number of folks that thought that they ought to be citizens, but those folks also wanted slavery to end.  Though it should be noted that even a lot of abolitionists didn't necessarily think that if slavery was ended, freed slaves should have equal rights.

Beyond that, according to Roger B Taney's majority opinion in the Dred Scot case, even free blacks weren't citizens.  That overturned about 3/4 of a century of legal precedence, had no real basis on anything in the Constitution, and oh, BTW, the Court took the opportunity to  rule the Missouri Compromise unconstitutional.  Of course, that's part of why the case was so much like throwing gasoline on a bonfire as far as tensions over slavery were concerned.  Even people outside the south who otherwise didn't really care about the slavery issue could see that pro-slavery forces were twisting the law to their own ends. and turn a lot of previously unconcerned northerners into abolitionists.  Pretty much the worst decision ever made by the Supreme Court.  And I don't mean just morally wrong, but clearly incorrect as far as interpreting what the Constitution actually says as well.

BTW, at the time, the Dred Scot case was the longest-running legal case in American history.  AFAIK, it's still the third longest, behind IIRC the telephone patent cases and the Microsoft anti-trust case.

[Valmy]

Even people outside the south who otherwise didn't really care about the slavery issue could see that pro-slavery forces were twisting the law to their own ends. and turn a lot of previously unconcerned northerners into abolitionists.

Put this and that together, and we have another nice little niche, which we may, ere long, see filled with another Supreme Court decision, declaring that the Constitution of the United States does not permit a State to exclude slavery from its limits. ...We shall lie down pleasantly dreaming that the people of Missouri are on the verge of making their State free, and we shall awake to the reality instead, that the Supreme Court has made Illinois a slave State.

Yep.

It was also the first nail in the coffin of the Democratic Party as it existed. Their 'popular sovereignty' solution was shown to be completely nonviable.

[Razgovory]

Okay? So government designed then?

No, those Indians existed prior to the US government.  The government simply recognized the rights of those polities.

[garbon]

Okay? So government designed then?

No, those Indians existed prior to the US government.  The government simply recognized the rights of those polities.

I think black people existed prior to the US government too.

[grumbler]

Okay? So government designed then?

No, those Indians existed prior to the US government.  The government simply recognized the rights of those polities.

I think black people existed prior to the US government too.

Indeed, and had those blacks wanted to return to their tribes like the Indians did, they could have... like the Indians did.   

[Berkut]

When it comes to Bernie, do we know anything at all about his foreign policy stance?

He seems pretty far left in general, is he of the Noam Chomsky, America is the worst thing that ever happened to the world crowd that seems so popular in the left these days?

[crazy canuck]

When it comes to Bernie, do we know anything at all about his foreign policy stance?

He seems pretty far left in general, is he of the Noam Chomsky, America is the worst thing that ever happened to the world crowd that seems so popular in the left these days?

From the perspective of an non American doesnt seem far left at all on foreign policy - but YMMV

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Foreign_Policy.htm

[Berkut]

When it comes to Bernie, do we know anything at all about his foreign policy stance?

He seems pretty far left in general, is he of the Noam Chomsky, America is the worst thing that ever happened to the world crowd that seems so popular in the left these days?

From the perspective of an non American doesnt seem far left at all on foreign policy - but YMMV

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Foreign_Policy.htm

Well, he pretty cleary is not a Chomsky disciple, so that is good.

But his "lets stick our heads in the sand and hope it goes away" approach to dealing with islamic radicalism seems pretty terrible.

[Martinus]

When it comes to Bernie, do we know anything at all about his foreign policy stance?

He seems pretty far left in general, is he of the Noam Chomsky, America is the worst thing that ever happened to the world crowd that seems so popular in the left these days?

From the perspective of an non American doesnt seem far left at all on foreign policy - but YMMV

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Foreign_Policy.htm

Well, he pretty cleary is not a Chomsky disciple, so that is good.

But his "lets stick our heads in the sand and hope it goes away" approach to dealing with islamic radicalism seems pretty terrible.

Also, not hawkish enough on Russia, imho.

[Berkut]

When it comes to Bernie, do we know anything at all about his foreign policy stance?

He seems pretty far left in general, is he of the Noam Chomsky, America is the worst thing that ever happened to the world crowd that seems so popular in the left these days?

From the perspective of an non American doesnt seem far left at all on foreign policy - but YMMV

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Foreign_Policy.htm

Well, he pretty cleary is not a Chomsky disciple, so that is good.

But his "lets stick our heads in the sand and hope it goes away" approach to dealing with islamic radicalism seems pretty terrible.

Also, not hawkish enough on Russia, imho.

Generally kind of a isolationist-lite. Which is terrible, I suppose, but not really safe in the world today, IMO.

[celedhring]

He seems to be a bit of an isolationist. Being "tame" on Islam and Russia stems from that.

EDIT: What Berkut said, weird that I didn't get the usual "somebody has posted" warning.

[Admiral Yi]

"War is always a last resort" is basically another way of saying no war ever.

[Eddie Teach]

"War is always a last resort" is basically another way of saying no war ever.

Nah. Hardly anyone chooses war when their objectives can be reached by other means.

[Admiral Yi]

Nah. Hardly anyone chooses war when their objectives can be reached by other means.

Yup.  Alternative resorts are infinite.