Hillary vs Bernie

[Martinus]

Except it would not be the whites paying, it would be everybody. And how do you give a cash payment to 'a people'? 'A people' does not have a bank account. We would have to give it to individuals. And is it supposed to be a symbolic act? Like an admission of guilt? Are we all supposed to be feel better, and that is the purpose...so every black person gets a few bucks as a symbolic gesture? Or is it supposed to be quantified somehow based on a historical study of 'plunder'? Or used to achieve a certain end, like say achieve some sort of bench mark of social progress? And what would that be? Sudden windfalls of cash do not have a great record as a tool of empowerment.

Yeah, we are so far removed from the event it would be difficult.  Do you get money based on how black you are?  If we did genetic testing and found someone was 10% black 40% Indian and 50% white, do they get money?  What about people who are black but never had ancestors who were enslaved in the US.  Or those who had ancestors who were slaves while in the British colony but not in the US?  Do people who's last slave ancestor was liberated in 1865 get more money then those who's last slave ancestor was liberated in 1805?  It's a real mess.

Yeah, with Native Americans it made more sense because they have their own communities and autonomies so the recipient of such reparations is much easier to identify.

[Martinus]

Sanders is divorced, was a single dad who was not married to the boy's mother. 

Ok, you have frequently held out of touch bizarre views on this board, but this must be one of the weirdest. 

[garbon]

Except it would not be the whites paying, it would be everybody. And how do you give a cash payment to 'a people'? 'A people' does not have a bank account. We would have to give it to individuals. And is it supposed to be a symbolic act? Like an admission of guilt? Are we all supposed to be feel better, and that is the purpose...so every black person gets a few bucks as a symbolic gesture? Or is it supposed to be quantified somehow based on a historical study of 'plunder'? Or used to achieve a certain end, like say achieve some sort of bench mark of social progress? And what would that be? Sudden windfalls of cash do not have a great record as a tool of empowerment.

Yeah, we are so far removed from the event it would be difficult.  Do you get money based on how black you are?  If we did genetic testing and found someone was 10% black 40% Indian and 50% white, do they get money?  What about people who are black but never had ancestors who were enslaved in the US.  Or those who had ancestors who were slaves while in the British colony but not in the US?  Do people who's last slave ancestor was liberated in 1865 get more money then those who's last slave ancestor was liberated in 1805?  It's a real mess.

Yeah, with Native Americans it made more sense because they have their own communities and autonomies so the recipient of such reparations is much easier to identify.

I don't really think it as clean with Native Americans as you are suggesting - particularly given how many communities were destroyed during the existence of the U.S.

Really in both situations, you have many people who have been shafted because the federal gov't could have done something relevant for the people and their offspring who were directly impacted but for various reasons chose not to do so. Of course shit gets complicated down the line.

Not, mind you, that I think reparations makes sense today but I wouldn't be unsympathetic to the view that the government waited until it is all 'too difficult to untangle'.

[Admiral Yi]

Really in both situations, you have many people who have been shafted because the federal gov't could have done something relevant for the people and their offspring who were directly impacted but for various reasons chose not to do so.

This interesting phrasing seems to be suggesting that you think a basis of reparations should be sins of omission, as opposed to sins of commission.

[garbon]

Really in both situations, you have many people who have been shafted because the federal gov't could have done something relevant for the people and their offspring who were directly impacted but for various reasons chose not to do so.

This interesting phrasing seems to be suggesting that you think a basis of reparations should be sins of omission, as opposed to sins of commission.

Sorry, I don't know what you are suggesting.

[Admiral Yi]

Sorry, I don't know what you are suggesting.

That you think reparations are due not for bad things that were done, but for nice things that were not done.

[garbon]

Sorry, I don't know what you are suggesting.

That you think reparations are due not for bad things that were done, but for nice things that were not done.

My point is that I think reparations were once due for the bad that was done and the bad allowed to happen. Unfortunately because such didn't take place in a timely fashion, virtually impossible to do with any fairness and generally beneficial impact.

[grumbler]

My point is that I think reparations were once due for the bad that was done and the bad allowed to happen. Unfortunately because such didn't take place in a timely fashion, virtually impossible to do with any fairness and generally beneficial impact.

If the standard of culpability is "bad allowed to happen" then virtually everyone alive at the time is culpable.  Which, of course, is what Yi was implying.   So, who owed reparations to whom, and why, in your book?

[Razgovory]

Reparations is an interesting idea, (though as I pointed out one with lots of problems), but I think Valmy really hits the nail on the head.  Would it really help race relations in the US?

[Ed Anger]

I want a check.

[Razgovory]

I want a check.

Hell, you might get one.  There are millions of white Americans who have a black slave ancestor.  Most probably don't even know it.

[Ed Anger]

I want a check.

Hell, you might get one.  There are millions of white Americans who have a black slave ancestor.  Most probably don't even know it.

I'm sure there is a darkie in my family's woodpile somewhere. They fucked anything that moved in ye olde times.

[viper37]

Sanders is divorced, was a single dad who was not married to the boy's mother. 

Ok, you have frequently held out of touch bizarre views on this board, but this must be one of the weirdest. 

we might have just misunderstood him

[LaCroix]

reparations to blacks makes sense in the immediate post-ACW. but #politics and war ravaged nation made that difficult. today, it doesn't make sense. indians are different because they're an established sovereignty within the US. money goes to those sovereigns. blacks have nothing similar -- they're american like any other without any exceptional circumstances. marty's point is pretty spot on

[garbon]

reparations to blacks makes sense in the immediate post-ACW. but #politics and war ravaged nation made that difficult. today, it doesn't make sense. indians are different because they're an established sovereignty within the US. money goes to those sovereigns. blacks have nothing similar -- they're american like any other without any exceptional circumstances. marty's point is pretty spot on

I don't see why this has to be the case. Even today we have tribes that seek federal recognition. I don't see why it would be impossible to gather as a group and say 'we are the descendants of xx' a slave who was documented to have worked for xx years without pay. Please certify our group as qualifying for slave reparations.'

Seems like that would be more sensible than qualifying for affirmative action based on a simple tick box.

Now certainly it wouldn't be easy gathering such a group but seems like it'd be a lawyers wet dream.