Are date rape drugs an urban myth?

[alfred russel]

Now the lawyer in me would probably have me jump in bed and say "so, I thought you didn't want sex..."

"He's more lawyer now than man. His mind is twisted and evil."

[Jacob]

And personally, if I girl wants to play all coy - I am not into that at all.  Baby, I will do almost anything you want me to do, but you have to tell me you want it.  Maybe even tell me how much you want it. 

You're so smooth 

[Barrister]

And personally, if I girl wants to play all coy - I am not into that at all.  Baby, I will do almost anything you want me to do, but you have to tell me you want it.  Maybe even tell me how much you want it. 

You're so smooth 

Et tu, Jacob?  I assumed I'd get some shots from others, but surely you'd support my stance that explicit consent in the bedroom is kind of sexy.

[viper37]

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

As a matter of public policy I think we should put the onus on those would might do the raping rather than those who might be raped.

Sure.  Of course.

When I prosecute someone for stealing a car, it doesn't matter if the car owner left the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition.  It is still a theft.

But I still also tell the vehicle owner that was a dumb move on their part.

Really?  Did you just equate a girl who drinks with leaving her doors unlocked with the keys in the ignition?

if a girls drinks a lot, follows a guy to his hotel room, start fondling, ask him to stop and he does, is that rape?  'Cause I remember a case where it was...

Do you have a link?  In particular to a reported case decision?

Gilbert Rozon, many years ago.  He was declared guilty but received unconditional... absolution?  Is that the english legal term for when your sentence is sorta suspended and you have no criminal record?

[Barrister]

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

As a matter of public policy I think we should put the onus on those would might do the raping rather than those who might be raped.

Sure.  Of course.

When I prosecute someone for stealing a car, it doesn't matter if the car owner left the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition.  It is still a theft.

But I still also tell the vehicle owner that was a dumb move on their part.

Really?  Did you just equate a girl who drinks with leaving her doors unlocked with the keys in the ignition?

if a girls drinks a lot, follows a guy to his hotel room, start fondling, ask him to stop and he does, is that rape?  'Cause I remember a case where it was...

Do you have a link?  In particular to a reported case decision?

Gilbert Rozon, many years ago.  He was declared guilty but received unconditional... absolution?  Is that the english legal term for when your sentence is sorta suspended and you have no criminal record?

Absolute discharge.  Your sentence is not suspended - you aren't given any sentence.  It's quite a rare sentence, and if they gave it on a sex assault charge that means to me it was a really unique set of facts.

[viper37]

From what I recall of the media report (he's the man behind Just for Laughs), the girl followed him to his hotel room after a party, he started fondling her breasts (she never removed her clothes), she asked him to stop, he did, she left, and the morning after she claimed he had sexually assaulted her.

[Martinus]

There has to be a reasonable standard though. You can't just say don't get drunk and you won't get raped. That's also blaming the victim.

I've never understood this feminist message that telling girls to take steps to protect themselves is unacceptable and blaming the victim.  It's sheer common sense.

What is a reasonable step?  Back to MiM's post to me when I had not clearly communicated my position.  Not leaving the house unescorted?

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

Whoa.

[Richard Hakluyt]

There has to be a reasonable standard though. You can't just say don't get drunk and you won't get raped. That's also blaming the victim.

I've never understood this feminist message that telling girls to take steps to protect themselves is unacceptable and blaming the victim.  It's sheer common sense.

What is a reasonable step?  Back to MiM's post to me when I had not clearly communicated my position.  Not leaving the house unescorted?

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

Whoa.

Especially if you are in Cologne I guess, or wearing cologne for that matter.

[Barrister]

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

Whoa.

You disagree with that advice?

[Martinus]

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

Whoa.

You disagree with that advice?

It's also about the context and who is giving it.

If you were giving that advice to your teenage daughter, I might agree.

But given that you are (1) a guy, (2) a public prosecutor, and (3) father of (only) sons, it does give off a bit of a nasty vibe. Sorry.

[Barrister]

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

Whoa.

You disagree with that advice?

It's also about the context and who is giving it.

If you were giving that advice to your teenage daughter, I might agree.

But given that you are (1) a guy, (2) a public prosecutor, and (3) father of (only) sons, it does give off a bit of a nasty vibe. Sorry.

But as a prosecutor i have prosecuted a whole bunch of guys in situations where they took advantage of intoxicated girls where they had no one there to protect them.  It in no way reduced their moral blameworthiness in the slightest.

I'm not giving this advice to anyone in specific.  But I do think as a society that is a message we should tell to all young people, boys and girls.

[Martinus]

It still shifts the blame somewhat, I think. After all, a lot of that advice is something one cannot control - you can get drunk "to excess" even if you don't intend to; sometimes you don't have friends to go out with.

How about instead telling people that if you see a drunk girl being approach by a guy, intervene, even if you don't know either of them? If you see your guy friend hit on a drunk girl he doesn't know, intervene. Tell boys not to try to have sex with a girl they just met. Etc.

[Barrister]

It still shifts the blame somewhat, I think. After all, a lot of that advice is something one cannot control - you can get drunk "to excess" even if you don't intend to; sometimes you don't have friends to go out with.

How about instead telling people that if you see a drunk girl being approach by a guy, intervene, even if you don't know either of them? If you see your guy friend hit on a drunk girl he doesn't know, intervene. Tell boys not to try to have sex with a girl they just met. Etc.

I don't think it's blame-shifting any more than telling people to lock their car doors is.

And counting on the good actions of strangers is unlikely to be successful.  People need to take control over what they can to protect themselves.

And I would absolutely tell my boys not to have sex with a girl they just met - and it has little to do with them potentially being accused of committing sex assaults.

[Razgovory]

Why leave it at girls?  Why not give the advice to gays as well?  No gay man may approach another gay man if the one of the parties is drunk.

[Martinus]

Why leave it at girls?  Why not give the advice to gays as well?  No gay man may approach another gay man if the one of the parties is drunk.

For the purpose of having sex? Sure, it's dumb to just do so - most HIV infections happen that way.