Are date rape drugs an urban myth?

[Malthus]

But when I point out the overwhelming #1 date rape drug is alcohol, all the men get quite defensive and start talking about false rape accusations.

It's a problem with the terminology. Drinking is a large part of the culture; using the 'date rape' label for booze may appear on the surface to be pathologizing common partying.

What would make booze a 'date rape drug' is the deliberate spiking of someone's drink with excess booze for the specific purpose of taking advantage of their subsequent inability to consent.

Perhaps not to take advantage of inability to consent, but is it not incredibly common for boys to buy drinks for girls, to add alcohol to a punch, encourage them to play drinking games, with the express purpose of hoping to reduce inhibitions so that they'll sleep with them?

Buy drinks for girls, yes.

Considering the other two being "incredibly common" may be artifacts of your frat years. 

But boys buying drinks for girls (or boys for that matter) is simply part of the cultural dance of courtship, and accepted as such. For normal people, it isn't the intent that the drinks literally render the girl incapable of consent, but rather, reduce inhibitions to normal interaction: the boys are also consuming drinks, for the same reason! 

[Malthus]

Is it true that alcohol is a factor in the majority of violent crimes? I read that somewhere, but it may have been a rhetorical flourish.

It's possible that 100% of violent crimes perpetrator drank water in the week prior to committing a crime.  I sense a pattern here.

I suggest a rather stronger causative link may exist with booze ... 

[MadImmortalMan]

There has to be a reasonable standard though. You can't just say don't get drunk and you won't get raped. That's also blaming the victim.

[crazy canuck]

The best advice there is dont get drunk.

Or leave your house after dark. Or before dark.

If you think you put yourself at risk to rape someone if you leave your house you should probably get some professional help asap.

I thought you were talking to the victims! 

Oh, ok I can see you you might have read it that way. 

[crazy canuck]

There has to be a reasonable standard though. You can't just say don't get drunk and you won't get raped. That's also blaming the victim.

But responding to what, I think, Viper was saying.  If a male does not want to be put in the position of being accused of rape, they had best remain sober.

[Jacob]

Nope, date rape drugs are not an urban myth as far as I'm concerned.

Anecdote #1:

I was in art school. I was mildly broken hearted over some girl in that overwrought way that comes easily to people in the early 20s and art-students, and I was both.

There was a party where I vaguely knew someone and what better way to get over a mildly broken heart than to go to a party, drink a bunch, make conversation, meet some new people, see what happened. That's what I did.

It was a good party, and I soon found myself making conversation with a girl. She was very pretty I thought, friendly, and pleasantly interested in my conversation. Things were looking up, I thought. It being a party, of course, I couldn't glom on to her so I wandered about a bit to chat with whatever people I knew and take in the scene as it were.

I ran into a girl I knew from school. She'd always been friendly to me in a way that suggested she was "interested". I'd always been mildly friendly back, but left it at that. The problem was that I found her spectacularly unattractive. In retrospective, she wasn't particularly unattractive, but she had a few features that hit my "no" buttons. Anyhow, she was there and she was clearly flirting with me and that was pleasant enough for a while even if I had no intentions of taking it further.

The party rumbled on and eventually I located the pretty girl again. Alas, she was deep in chat with some other dude, but I went over to say hi. Introductions were made and small talk was had - it was pretty clear that I didn't have a chance there. Oh well, no big loss.

So dude pulls out a jar of pills offers one to the girl, offers me one, and (maybe) takes one himself. I check out the jar - it has some compound chemical that I've never seen - and think "what the fuck" and take one. Yes, obviously you shouldn't take unidentified drugs from people you don't know, but what's the worst that can happen, right?

I wander around the party a bit longer. Pretty soon I start feeling really fucking drunk, and rather drowsy too. Things get a bit hazy, but I vaguely recall making my way into a bedroom that's been used for coat storage - I think perhaps to get my own jacket so I can leave - and I think I decide to  lay down for a quick rest.

I pass out cold.

After an indeterminate amount of time I start having an erotic dream. I have no idea where I am - I'm half awake, half asleep state, barely conscious - but have that funny feeling in my pants and I'm kissing someone. It's a nice dream, and it goes on for a while but eventually I come to and discover that I'm still in that bed at that party, and that the girl I flirted with from school sitting across my crotch, grinding away. We are both wearing our clothes, thankfully.

All groggy I ask her what's going on, and she quickly realizes that I had no clue how we ended up like that. She stammers up an embarrassed apology, I tell her "don't worry about it", and she beats a hasty retreat.

I get my jacket and head home to sleep off the rest of the night in my own bed.

The next day, by coincidence, I read the local free paper and they have a small public notice type article where they say the Vancouver Police are issuing an alert about [some drug name], which has been used recently in a number of date rapes, and for people to be aware etc etc. I recognize the name from the pill jar last night.

Since it was my day off, and since I remembered where the pretty girl worked - it was a bagel shop, I believe, and she mentioned it the previous evening - I go there and show her the article, and check if she's okay. She thanks me and says all is fine - the dude was her boyfriend, don't worry about it. So I don't.

But yeah, from personal experience I'm pretty sure those drugs are not a myth. They did a solid number on me, that's for sure.

...

Anecdote #2

Friend of mine related a story of how she went to the night-club with another friend - also female. Her friend - normally a pretty sturdy drinker - got fall-down-sloppy-drunk after having half a drink that the bartender comped her. A group of guys - obviously together - told the people around her "I got this, bro," "don't worry, I got her," and "she's with me" and tried to gather her up until my friend told them "fuck off, she's with me and she doesn't know you."

Could just be coincidence, of course, but it fits the pattern pretty well.
...

Anecdote #3

Friend of mine - a guy - went to a private party at a bar where he knew some people. Somehow he got super duper drunk after a few drinks - and he was a pretty stout drinker at that point in time - and this guy - some random stranger, who soon had another friend with him - managed to walk him out of the bar to an ATM and withdraw the maximum possible amounts from both his bank card and credit card twice, before and after midnight.

The withdrawals were caught on CCTV, but there wasn't much the police could do and the bank wasn't too helpful either.

No proof of any drugs, of course, but it fits the pattern pretty well.

...

So yeah... I don't think date rape drugs are an urban myth.

[Barrister]

There has to be a reasonable standard though. You can't just say don't get drunk and you won't get raped. That's also blaming the victim.

I've never understood this feminist message that telling girls to take steps to protect themselves is unacceptable and blaming the victim.  It's sheer common sense.

[crazy canuck]

There has to be a reasonable standard though. You can't just say don't get drunk and you won't get raped. That's also blaming the victim.

I've never understood this feminist message that telling girls to take steps to protect themselves is unacceptable and blaming the victim.  It's sheer common sense.

What is a reasonable step?  Back to MiM's post to me when I had not clearly communicated my position.  Not leaving the house unescorted?

[Jacob]

There has to be a reasonable standard though. You can't just say don't get drunk and you won't get raped. That's also blaming the victim.

I've never understood this feminist message that telling girls to take steps to protect themselves is unacceptable and blaming the victim.  It's sheer common sense.

Because it's commonly been used to segue to "if you didn't take whatever step I'm suggesting, then you clearly wanted to have sex, so it's not rape because you didn't fight hard enough."

[Barrister]

There has to be a reasonable standard though. You can't just say don't get drunk and you won't get raped. That's also blaming the victim.

I've never understood this feminist message that telling girls to take steps to protect themselves is unacceptable and blaming the victim.  It's sheer common sense.

What is a reasonable step?  Back to MiM's post to me when I had not clearly communicated my position.  Not leaving the house unescorted?

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

[mongers]

There has to be a reasonable standard though. You can't just say don't get drunk and you won't get raped. That's also blaming the victim.

I've never understood this feminist message that telling girls to take steps to protect themselves is unacceptable and blaming the victim.  It's sheer common sense.

What is a reasonable step?  Back to MiM's post to me when I had not clearly communicated my position.  Not leaving the house unescorted?

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

Like a rugby team. 

[The Brain]

So dude pulls out a jar of pills offers one to the girl, offers me one, and (maybe) takes one himself. I check out the jar - it has some compound chemical that I've never seen - and think "what the fuck" and take one.

Which drugs had you taken earlier that made you make this decision?

[crazy canuck]

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

As a matter of public policy I think we should put the onus on those would might do the raping rather than those who might be raped.

[Barrister]

Do not drink to excess.  If you do drink to excess, please make sure there are sober people around who can protect you.

As a matter of public policy I think we should put the onus on those would might do the raping rather than those who might be raped.

Sure.  Of course.

When I prosecute someone for stealing a car, it doesn't matter if the car owner left the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition.  It is still a theft.

But I still also tell the vehicle owner that was a dumb move on their part.

[MadImmortalMan]

Your car was asking for it, with that short skirt.