and now.... Honduras.

[derspiess]

I don't know why you keep bringing Obama and Chavez into this,

Pretty sure both are injecting themselves into the debate by insisting that the Hondurans put Zelaya back in power.

[Hansmeister]

it would be nice if MM could bring himself to critizise Zelaya's gross violations of the law in an attempt to set himself up as dictator for life.

But apparently we need to focus our criticism on the attempt of all the other institutions of democracy to defend their democracy rather on the tyrant that sought to destroy it.  Claiming that the actions by the legislature, the Supreme Court, the Attorney general, and the armed forces were all illegitimate and Zelaya who was trying to cook up a phony and illegal referendum to stay in power should be returned to power so he can continue is laughable.

Well, it's still a step up from you defending Al Qaeda, at least.

[The Minsky Moment]

it would be nice if MM could bring himself to critizise Zelaya's gross violations of the law in an attempt to set himself up as dictator for life.

I don't know anything about Zelaya, except that he has been accused of many violations.  If true he should be held accountable.  There are appropriate procedures for doing that, and it is plainly apparent that none of those procedures were followed.

Well, it's still a step up from you defending Al Qaeda, at least.

You are predictable if nothing else, the weaker your position, the more heated and overblown your rhetoric.

[jimmy olsen]

Well, it's still a step up from you defending Al Qaeda, at least.

When was this?

[The Minsky Moment]

I don't know why you keep bringing Obama and Chavez into this,

Pretty sure both are injecting themselves into the debate by insisting that the Hondurans put Zelaya back in power.

That may be so, but my own view has nothing to do with whatever Obama or Chavez happen to think.

My opinion of Chavez in particular should be clear to anyone around here, so obviously I have no interest in defending his positions, whatever they may be.

[Hansmeister]

Well, it's still a step up from you defending Al Qaeda, at least.

When was this?

When he was defending Osama Bin Laden's right to make phone calls without the calls being intercepted by the NSA.  Of course my rhetoric was overblown, he wasn't pro-Al Qaeda, he was just anti-Bush.  To him the Al Qaeda was just the lesser of two evils.

Funny thing that after getting all exercised about Osama Bin Laden's privacy rights being violated he doesn't seem to care about the massive violations of the privacy rights violations of Americans that the Obama administration is attempting.  The health care bill authorizes the WH to monitor everyone's personal finances as well as everyone's health care records without a warrant and that doesn't seem to bother him at all.  But listening to Osama's phone calls without a warrant - what an outrage!

Oh, I didn't even mention Obama's attempts to gain the power to take control of the internet.

[derspiess]

Oh, I didn't even mention Obama's attempts to gain the power to take control of the internet.

Yeah, that's a real gem.  Imagine the outcry if the GOP were trying to pass this with teh Boosh in power. 

Linky for anyone not familiar: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html

[The Minsky Moment]

 

[Hansmeister]

Actually my point is that your positions are based entirely on political partisanship and not on some fidelity towards the law.  I'm still waiting for you to denounce eric holder for his dismissal of the case against the Black Panthers, oops I mean licensed Democratic poll watchers, in the voter intimidation case after there was already a default judgement against them.

I mean you ranted for years at the politizisation of the Bush Justice Dep't, surely you would condemn are far stronger case for illegitimate politicization of justice.

Of course when I challenged you last time on that all I heard was crickets chirping.

Similarly here, your defense of Zelaya is purely political, and not out of any sense of fidelity to the law, I doubt you're capable of that.  That being said, if I were ever guilty of murder I'd hire you in a nanosecond.

[The Minsky Moment]

Hans if you want me to comment on something all you have to do is ask.  Ideally politely, but that may be asking too much.

If you want my opinion on the Rockefeller-Snowe bill, the answer is that I don't like it and I oppose it.   See that was easy.

I don't know anything about the Holder issue you mentioned, but if you cite me, I'd be happy to give a view.  i do respect Holder as a lawyer, but he is an AG now, and AG's are often up to no good.  Something in the water.

Frankly I couldn't give a rat's ass about Zelaya and I don't spend much time worrying about the fate of constitutional governance in Honduras.  If Zelaya were to be banned for life, I could care less.  But I do think it is absurd to pretend that a military coup is something else, just because the coup plotters happened to have the presence of mind to hire a PR guy that knows how to make a legal citation.

[Hansmeister]

I already had covered it before:

EXCLUSIVE: No. 3 at Justice OK'd Panther reversal

Jerry Seper (Contact)

EXCLUSIVE:

Associate Attorney General Thomas J. Perrelli, the No. 3 official in the Obama Justice Department, was consulted and ultimately approved a decision in May to reverse course and drop a civil complaint accusing three members of the New Black Panther Party of intimidating voters in Philadelphia during November's election, according to interviews.

The department's career lawyers in the Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division who pursued the complaint for five months had recommended that Justice seek sanctions against the party and three of its members after the government had already won a default judgment in federal court against the men.

Front-line lawyers were in the final stages of completing that work when they were unexpectedly told by their superiors in late April to seek a delay after a meeting between political appointees and career supervisors, according to federal records and interviews.

The delay was ordered by then-acting Assistant Attorney General Loretta King after she discussed with Mr. Perrelli concerns about the case during one of their regular review meetings, according to the interviews.

Ms. King, a career senior executive service official, had been named by President Obama in January to temporarily fill the vacant political position of assistant attorney general for civil rights while a permanent choice could be made.

She and other career supervisors ultimately recommended dropping the case against two of the men and the party and seeking a restraining order against the one man who wielded a nightstick at the Philadelphia polling place. Mr. Perrelli approved that plan, officials said.

Questions about how high inside the department the decision to drop the case went have persisted in Congress and in the media for weeks.

Justice Department spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler told The Washington Times that the department has an "ongoing obligation" to be sure the claims it makes are supported by the facts and the law. She said that after a "thorough review" of the complaint, top career attorneys in the Civil Rights Division determined the "facts and the law did not support pursuing the claims against three of the defendants."

"As a result, the department dismissed those claims," she said. "We are committed to vigorous enforcement of the laws protecting anyone exercising his or her right to vote."

While the Obama administration has vowed a new era of openness, department officials have refused to answer questions from Republican members of Congress on why the case was dismissed, claiming the information was "privileged," according to congressional correspondence with the department.

Rep. Frank R. Wolf, Virginia Republican and a senior member of the House Appropriations Committee who has raised questions about the case, said he also was prevented from interviewing the front-line lawyers who brought the charges.

"Why am I being prevented from meeting with the trial team on this case?" Mr. Wolf asked. "There are many questions that need to be answered. This whole thing just stinks to high heaven."

Ms. Schmaler said the department has tried to cooperate with Congress. "The Department responded to an earlier letter from Congressman Wolf in an effort to address his questions. Following that letter, the Department agreed to a meeting with Congressman Wolf and career attorneys, in which they made a good-faith effort to respond to his inquiries about this case. We will continue to try to clear up any confusion Congressman Wolf has about this case."

Ms. King and a deputy are expected to travel to Capitol Hill on Thursday to meet behind closed doors with House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers Jr., Michigan Democrat, and Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, the top Republican on the panel, to discuss continuing concerns about the case.

The department also has yet to provide any records sought by The Times under a Freedom of Information Act request filed in May seeking documents detailing the decision process. Department officials also declined to answer whether any outside groups had raised concerns about the case or pressured the department to drop it.

Kristen Clarke, director of political participation at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund in Washington, however, confirmed to The Times that she talked about the case with lawyers at the Justice Department and shared copies of the complaint with several persons. She said, however, her organization was "not involved in the decision to dismiss the civil complaint."

She said the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People has consistently argued that the department should bring more voter intimidation cases, adding that it was "disconcerting" that it did not do so.

Mr. Perrelli, a prominent private practice attorney, served previously as a counsel to Attorney General Janet Reno in the Clinton administration and was an Obama supporter who raised more than $500,000 for the Democrat candidate in the 2008 elections. He authorized a delay to give department officials more time to decide what to do, said officials familiar with the case but not authorized to discuss it publicly. He eventually approved the decision to drop charges against three of the four defendants, they said.

At issue was what, if any, punishment to seek against the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense (NBPP) and three of its members accused in a Jan. 7 civil complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Philadelphia.

Two NBPP members, wearing black berets, black combat boots, black dress shirts and black jackets with military-style markings, were charged in a civil complaint with intimidating voters at a Philadelphia polling place, including brandishing a 2-foot-long nightstick and issuing racial threats and racial insults. Authorities said a third NBPP member "managed, directed and endorsed the behavior."

The election-day incident gained national attention when it was captured by a voter-fraud citizen activist group on videotape and distributed on YouTube (below).


None of the NBPP members responded to the charges or made any appearance in court.

"Intimidation outside of a polling place is contrary to the democratic process," said Grace Chung Becker, a Bush administration political appointee who was the acting assistant attorney general for civil rights at the time the case was filed. "The Voting Rights Act of 1965 was passed to protect the fundamental right to vote and the department takes allegations of voter intimidation seriously."

Mrs. Becker, now on a leave of absence from government work, said she personally reviewed the NBPP complaint and approved its filing in federal court. She said the complaint had been the subject of numerous reviews and discussions with the career lawyers.

Mrs. Becker said Ms. King was overseeing other cases at the time and was not involved in the decision to file the original complaint.

A Justice Department memo shows that career lawyers in the case decided as early as Dec. 22 to seek a complaint against the NBPP; its chairman, Malik Zulu Shabazz, a lawyer and D.C. resident; Minister King Samir Shabazz, a resident of Philadelphia and head of the Philadelphia NBPP chapter who was accused of wielding the nightstick; and Jerry Jackson, a resident of Philadelphia and a NBPP member.

"We believe the deployment of uniformed members of a well-known group with an extremely hostile racial agenda, combined with the brandishing of a weapon at the entrance to a polling place, constitutes a violation of Section 11(b) of the Voting Rights Act which prohibits types of intimidation, threats and coercion," the memo said.

The memo, sent to Mrs. Becker, was signed by Christopher Coates, chief of the Voting Section; Robert Popper, deputy chief of the section; J. Christian Adams, trial attorney and lead lawyer in the case; and Spencer R. Fisher, law clerk. None of the four has made themselves available for comment.

Members of Congress continue to ask questions about the case.

"If showing a weapon, making threatening statements and wearing paramilitary uniforms in front of polling station doors does not constitute voter intimidation, at what threshold of activity would these laws be enforceable?" Mr. Wolf asked.

Mr. Smith also complained that a July 13 response by Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich to concerns the congressman had about the Philadelphia incident did not alleviate his concerns.

"The administration still has failed to explain why it did not pursue an obvious case of voter intimidation. Refusal to address these concerns only confirms politicization of the issue and does not reflect well on the Justice Department," Mr. Smith said.

Mr. Smith asked the department's Office on Inspector General to investigate the matter, and the request was referred to the department's Office of Professional Responsibility.

Lawmakers aren't alone in the concerns.

The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights said in a June 16 letter to Justice that the decision to drop the case caused it "great confusion," since the NBPP members were "caught on video blocking access to the polls, and physically threatening and verbally harassing voters during the Nov. 4, 2008, general election."

"Though it had basically won the case, the [Civil Rights Division] took the unusual move of voluntarily dismissing the charges , " the letter said. "The division's public rationale would send the wrong message entirely — that attempts at voter suppression will be tolerated and will not be vigorously prosecuted so long as the groups or individuals who engage in them fail to respond to the charges leveled against them."

The dispute over the case and the reversal of career line attorneys highlights sensitivities that have remained inside the department since Bush administration political appointees ignored or reversed their career counterparts on some issues and some U.S. attorneys were fired for what Congress concluded were political reasons.

Mr. Weich, in his letter to the congressman, sought to dispel any notion that politics was involved. He argued that the department dropped charges against three of the four defendants "because the facts and the law did not support pursuing" them. He said the decision was made after a "careful and through review of the matter " by Ms. King. He said:

• While the NBPP made statements and posted notice that more than 300 of its members would be deployed at polling places throughout the United States during the Nov. 4 elections, the statement and posting did not say any of them would display a weapon or otherwise break the law.

• While the complaint charged that the NBPP and Mr. Zulu Shabazz endorsed the activities at the polling places, the evidence was "equivocal" since both later disavowed what happened in Philadelphia and suspended that city's chapter after the incident.

• The charges against Mr. Jackson were dropped because police who responded to the polling place ordered Mr. Samir Shabazz to leave but allowed Mr. Jackson to stay. He also noted that the department approved "appropriately tailored injunctive relief" against Mr. Samir Shabazz for his use of the nightstick.

The injunction prohibits Mr. Samir Shabazz from brandishing a weapon outside a polling place through Nov. 15, 2012, and Ms. Schmaler said the department "will fully enforce the terms of that injunction."

On its Web page, the NBPP said the Philadelphia chapter was suspended from operations and would not be recognized until further notice. It said the organization did not condone or promote the carrying of nightsticks or any kind of weapon at any polling place.

"We are intelligent enough to understand that a polling place is a sensitive site and all actions must be carried out in a civilized and lawful manner," it said.



Witnesses who supported the Justice Department case said they were surprised by the reversal.

Stephen R. Morse, a blogger hired by Republicans to be at the polls and who videotaped the confrontation, said the NBPP members blatantly used racial insults on would-be voters and other poll watchers, telling one man, "Cracker, you about to be ruled by a black man."

Mr. Morse, a University of Pennsylvania alumnus, said he was "outraged" that the complaint was dismissed, saying he hoped Democrats would join Mr. Smith and Mr. Wolf in attempting to ensure that the incident "doesn't become a partisan issue, but rather an issue of right vs. wrong."

Chris Hill, national director of operations for a Gathering of Eagles, an organization dedicated to the support of U.S. troops, said the NBPP members visibly intimidated voters with racial slurs as they tried to enter the building.

Mr. Hill, a U.S. Army veteran who also served as a Philadelphia poll watcher for Republicans, said several voters at the location said they were afraid. He said the NBPP members tried to deny him access to the poll although he was a certified poll watcher, telling him, "White power don't rule here."

A Justice Department memo also says that a black couple, Larry and Angela Counts, both Republican poll watchers, told authorities they were scared, worried about their safety and concerned about leaving the polling place at the end of the day because of the actions of the NBPP members. Mrs. Counts said she wondered whether someone might "bomb the place" and Mr. Counts said the NBPP members called him a "race traitor," the memo said.

U.S. District Judge Stewart Dalzell in Philadelphia entered default judgments against the NBPP members April 2 after ordering them to plead or otherwise defend themselves. They refused to appear in court or file motions in answer to the government's complaint. Two weeks later, the judge ordered the Justice Department to file its motions for default judgments by May 1 — a ruling that showed the government had won its case.

The men also have not returned calls from The Times seeking comment.

On May 1, Justice sought an extension of time and during the tumultuous two weeks that followed the career front-line lawyers tried to persuade their bosses to proceed with the case.

The matter was even referred to the Appellate Division for a second opinion, an unusual event for a case that hadn't even reached the appeals process.

Appellate Chief Diana K. Flynn said in a May 13 memo obtained by The Times that the appropriate action was to pursue the default judgment unless the department had evidence the court ruling was based on unethical conduct by the government.

She said the complaint was aimed at preventing the "paramilitary style intimidation of voters" at polling places elsewhere and Justice could make a "reasonable argument in favor of default relief against all defendants and probably should." She noted that the complaint's purpose was to "prevent the paramilitary style intimidation of voters" while leaving open "ample opportunity for political expression."

An accompanying memo by Appellate Section lawyer Marie K. McElderry said the charges not only included bringing the weapon to the polling place, but creating an intimidating atmosphere by the uniforms, the military-type stance and the threatening language used. She said the complaint appeared to be "sufficient to support" the injunctions sought by the career lawyers.

"The government's predominant interest ... is preventing intimidation, threats and coercion against voters or persons urging or aiding persons to vote or attempt to vote," she said.

The front-line lawyers, however, lost the argument and were ordered to drop the case.

Bartle Bull, a civil rights activist who also was a poll watcher in Philadelphia, said after the complaint was dropped, he called Mr. Adams to find out why. He said he was told the decision "came as a surprise to all of us" and that the career lawyers working on the case feared that the failure to enforce the Voting Rights Act "would embolden other abuses in the future."

[Hansmeister]

Frankly I couldn't give a rat's ass about Zelaya and I don't spend much time worrying about the fate of constitutional governance in Honduras.  If Zelaya were to be banned for life, I could care less.  But I do think it is absurd to pretend that a military coup is something else, just because the coup plotters happened to have the presence of mind to hire a PR guy that knows how to make a legal citation.

So now the Honduran Supreme Court is a PR guy? 

[Siege]

But I do think it is absurd to pretend that a military coup is something else, just because the coup plotters happened to have the presence of mind to hire a PR guy that knows how to make a legal citation.

So, if an american president were to try to stay in the White House after his 2 terms, and the US military were to remove him, it would be a military coup?

[The Minsky Moment]

The story is a little misleading because it hides the ball on the fact that they got an injunction against one of the defendants.

I agree that it is more than a little strange to drop a case where the judge has invited you to make a motion for default judgment though, and even more suspicious that the office seems to have closed ranks in terms of refusing to give any further explanation for such a strange decision.

[The Minsky Moment]

So now the Honduran Supreme Court is a PR guy? 

The Supreme court didn't cite art 239 in its arrest order.

I don't really blame the Court - they were basically presented with a fait accompli by the military and took the easiest of bad options.  Again it doesn't change the reality of what happened.