and now.... Honduras.

[The Larch]

Regarding the referendum that triggered the whole situation, it was way more innocent that you may think.

It was a non-binding proposal to add a question during the next elections to ask if voters wanted to form a constitutional assembly to draft a new constitution, not a straight forward "Do you want me for a second mandate" one. To add insult to the injury, Zelaya never said that he'd seek reelection this way, that was what the opposition accused him of wanting.

Sure, the whole situation stank, but I don't think that the answer was proportional.

[The Larch]

My personal opinion is that, when "enforcing" the law, they went way overboard and broke other laws in the process. Even if the spirit of the law is being kept, plenty of unsavoury stuff was done as well on its name.

I'm inclined to agree with you.  What are your thoughts on the OAS position?

Which position, suspending Honduras' membership on it?

[jimmy olsen]

Regarding the referendum that triggered the whole situation, it was way more innocent that you may think.

It was a non-binding proposal to add a question during the next elections to ask if voters wanted to form a constitutional assembly to draft a new constitution, not a straight forward "Do you want me for a second mandate" one. To add insult to the injury, Zelaya never said that he'd seek reelection this way, that was what the opposition accused him of wanting.

Sure, the whole situation stank, but I don't think that the answer was proportional.

The constitution says "proposing reform" is grounds for expulsion though.

[Admiral Yi]

Which position, suspending Honduras' membership on it?

Si.

[Neil]

Regarding the referendum that triggered the whole situation, it was way more innocent that you may think.

It was a non-binding proposal to add a question during the next elections to ask if voters wanted to form a constitutional assembly to draft a new constitution, not a straight forward "Do you want me for a second mandate" one. To add insult to the injury, Zelaya never said that he'd seek reelection this way, that was what the opposition accused him of wanting.

Sure, the whole situation stank, but I don't think that the answer was proportional.

And yet the Supreme Court decided he violated the law, and had forfeited his office.  There is only one legal avenue of appeal to the Supreme Court, and that is to contest the result with armed force.  What other response was possible?

[Valmy]

I have to say this makes the claim the President of Honduras was 'illegally' expelled and thus the existing government illegal a bit shakey if they did it according to their own laws.  Is there some sort of higher law Honduras is required to follow?  After all we haven't booted the many Latin American states that have had actual illegal military coups out of the OAS.

[The Larch]

Regarding the referendum that triggered the whole situation, it was way more innocent that you may think.

It was a non-binding proposal to add a question during the next elections to ask if voters wanted to form a constitutional assembly to draft a new constitution, not a straight forward "Do you want me for a second mandate" one. To add insult to the injury, Zelaya never said that he'd seek reelection this way, that was what the opposition accused him of wanting.

Sure, the whole situation stank, but I don't think that the answer was proportional.

The constitution says "proposing reform" is grounds for expulsion though.

Proposing reform of the "set in stone" articles, not proposing reform at all. AFAIK, it was never explicitly stated that the constitutional assembly would reform those specific articles.

[The Larch]

Which position, suspending Honduras' membership on it?

Si.

Until the situation is solved, I think it's a legitimate answer. Then again the grounds in which it was argued seemed shaky.

[alfred russel]

Fortunately, he wasn't actually the president anymore.  The positions taken by the other American states seem mainly to be founded in a desire to create another left-wind dictator (Venezuala) or profound ignorance (the US).

Do you really think there was "profound ignorance" on the part of the US, or do you think the US is responding with the aim of taking the air out of the balloon of the left wing blame everything on the CIA crowd?

[Admiral Yi]

Until the situation is solved, I think it's a legitimate answer. Then again the grounds in which it was argued seemed shaky.

Uh, what do you mean by "solved?"  Comosellama is returned to office?

[The Larch]

I have to say this makes the claim the President of Honduras was 'illegally' expelled and thus the existing government illegal a bit shakey if they did it according to their own laws.  Is there some sort of higher law Honduras is required to follow?  After all we haven't booted the many Latin American states that have had actual illegal military coups out of the OAS.

Apparently, the Honduran constitution itself also forbids the state from expelling its nationals to other countries, that's the basis for the "illegal" claim, and the Honduran army itself admitted that they broke the law when expelling Zelaya, but they argued that it had to be done.

[The Larch]

Until the situation is solved, I think it's a legitimate answer. Then again the grounds in which it was argued seemed shaky.

Uh, what do you mean by "solved?"  Comosellama is returned to office?

An agreement of any kind is reached between all parts. No need to have Zelaya return to office, I doubt it could be even possible anyway.

[Admiral Yi]

Do you really think there was "profound ignorance" on the part of the US, or do you think the US is responding with the aim of taking the air out of the balloon of the left wing blame everything on the CIA crowd?

That, or a manifestation of the American left view that "they" can do no wrong and "we" can do no right.

[alfred russel]

Do you really think there was "profound ignorance" on the part of the US, or do you think the US is responding with the aim of taking the air out of the balloon of the left wing blame everything on the CIA crowd?

That, or a manifestation of the American left view that "they" can do no wrong and "we" can do no right.

No comprendo.

[Admiral Yi]

An agreement of any kind is reached between all parts. No need to have Zelaya return to office, I doubt it could be even possible anyway.

You're granting Zelaya veto over Honduran membership in the OAS.