Internet news really, really sucks

[Razgovory]

You sure about that?

Pretty sure there was no popular vote for President prior to 1868. Given that is what their State Constitution said and all.

Technically nobody does.  I thought the S.C thing was worked out in practice in the 1840's.

[Admiral Yi]

It's a different way of making coffee.  Some people swear by them.

[DGuller]

News that will wake you up.

[viper37]

Well if the Americans had lost, there's no way the French would have relinquished Louisana without a fight. My guess is that we would would have ended up with a Super Canada (Canada plus Eastern USA) with a Super Mexico (Mexico plus Western USA), a Super Alaska (Russian Alaska) and possibly a Florida. All independent of course, but the first two inside the Commonwealth.

There would be far fewer people in North America.  Not nearly as many people would want to immigrate from Europe to be under Britain's thumb.

Well to be fair they were flooding over in pretty overwhelming numbers to do that before the revolution.

When was universal manhood suffrage enacted in Canada?

1960.  Unless you don't count indians as people, then it would be 1920 for everyone, male and female.

[Josquius]

Well if the Americans had lost, there's no way the French would have relinquished Louisana without a fight. My guess is that we would would have ended up with a Super Canada (Canada plus Eastern USA) with a Super Mexico (Mexico plus Western USA), a Super Alaska (Russian Alaska) and possibly a Florida. All independent of course, but the first two inside the Commonwealth.

There would be far fewer people in North America.  Not nearly as many people would want to immigrate from Europe to be under Britain's thumb.

Why would you think that?

Canada had tremendous amounts of immigration - greater per capita than the US - in the 19th and early 20th century.

Rights came slower to Canada.  Inability of elected officials dictate foreign policy.  Ability to expand westward curtailed.  There was substantial immigration from Britain to the US.  My ancestors were trying to get away from Monarchy some in particular were trying to get away from British Monarchy.  I don't think they would have been so keen to set up shop in British territory.  On the plus side, without that safety valve British politics would likely have been much different.  They may not have fared so well in 1848.

Then why did so many fleeing europe go to the uk itself?

Most migrants to the Americas really didnt care much about politics.  It's rather the American myth that they came over for rights and democracy and all that jazz. For 99% it was all about free land and other economic benefits.

[The Brain]

Choosing America was mostly about getting to kill Indians. IIRC every immigrant got a license for 40 Indians and a chief.

[Caliga]

Most migrants to the Americas really didnt care much about politics.  It's rather the American myth that they came over for rights and democracy and all that jazz. For 99% it was all about free land and other economic benefits.

I can't speak for everyone's ancestors, but almost all of mine were religious dissenters... Mennonites and Lutherans on my father's side, and Quakers on my mother's side.

[Razgovory]

Then why did so many fleeing europe go to the uk itself?

Most migrants to the Americas really didnt care much about politics.  It's rather the American myth that they came over for rights and democracy and all that jazz. For 99% it was all about free land and other economic benefits.

Cause they didn't have the money to go all the way the US.     Very few people settled out west for free land.  Most of them weren't even immigrants.  Not so many immigrants came to Britain (though you guys begrudged the ones that came).  2 million Russian Jews fled their homes by 1914.  120,000 came to the UK.  Guess were the rest went.  Seven million Germans immigrated to the US between 1820 and 1870.  How many came to Britain? A million Swedes came to the US between 1820-1900.  800,000 Norwegians.  300,000 Danes.  280,000 Fins.  Are there similar number of Scandinavians who immigrated to the UK?  5.5 million Italians showed up the US.

Between 1820 and 1930 3.5 million British (non-Irish), and 4.5 million Irish came to the US.  The numbers of people who came to the US is just staggering.  I'd say that a lot of them cared about politics, since a very large number of immigrants came because the politics back home prevented them from having certain rights, practicing their religions or you know, eating.

[DGuller]

My high school history teacher would vigorously object.  He always used to say that no one uproots their life and moves to another continent just so that they can speak freely.  They do that because of relative economic opportunities.

[The Larch]

I saw a news site called Agence France Presse. Never heard of it.  WTF is it?

You need to get out more. It's a major news agency, founded in France after the liberation of Paris. It is nowadays the 3rd largest international news agency, after AP and Reuters.

[Razgovory]

My high school history teacher would vigorously object.  He always used to say that no one uproots their life and moves to another continent just so that they can speak freely.  They do that because of relative economic opportunities.

They are fairly closely intertwined.  The my ancestors who fled in 1848 had their say, and there was far greater opportunity in not being spit on Prussian bayonet then there was dying as a traitor.  The economic situation for the Irish was pretty bleak during the famine, a famine that was caused by certain polices of the UK that the Irish didn't have much of a say in.  Likewise a Jew who flees the Pogrom probably see better economic pastures in a place where the government won't burn down his home.

[Josquius]

Then why did so many fleeing europe go to the uk itself?

Most migrants to the Americas really didnt care much about politics.  It's rather the American myth that they came over for rights and democracy and all that jazz. For 99% it was all about free land and other economic benefits.

Cause they didn't have the money to go all the way the US.     Very few people settled out west for free land.  Most of

Not particularly true.
There were some who planned to stay in the uk for just a little while and then move onto the us but who got bogged down, however these weren't the majority rule. And it tended not to be because they were too poor that this happened;  generally the opposite I'd say.
Also most of the wealthier migrants chose the uk rather than the Americas.

I don't think anyone is going to argue more people went to the US than the UK. But then the US was this big empty landed shrouded in myth and the promise of vast riches for all. Also they were actively encouraging migrants to come, unlike the UK.

Going off family history is also not such a great way to try and prove they went to the us to enjoy the freedom. Of course people will SAY it was all about freedom, particularly once they've bitten into the apple of US nationalism.
If you're a 19th century pauper though then getting food on the table is all you care about. That theoretically you could be executed for insulting the emperor isn't really something you consider in your every day life; indeed most of the poor tended towards being supportive of absolute monarchies.

[Valmy]

You sure about that?

Pretty sure there was no popular vote for President prior to 1868. Given that is what their State Constitution said and all.

Technically nobody does.  I thought the S.C thing was worked out in practice in the 1840's.

Technically nobody has a popular vote for President? Ok fine. There was no popular vote for the electors for President. In what sense was it worked out in practice?

[Razgovory]

Not particularly true.
There were some who planned to stay in the uk for just a little while and then move onto the us but who got bogged down, however these weren't the majority rule. And it tended not to be because they were too poor that this happened;  generally the opposite I'd say.
Also most of the wealthier migrants chose the uk rather than the Americas.

I don't think anyone is going to argue more people went to the US than the UK. But then the US was this big empty landed shrouded in myth and the promise of vast riches for all. Also they were actively encouraging migrants to come, unlike the UK.

Going off family history is also not such a great way to try and prove they went to the us to enjoy the freedom. Of course people will SAY it was all about freedom, particularly once they've bitten into the apple of US nationalism.
If you're a 19th century pauper though then getting food on the table is all you care about. That theoretically you could be executed for insulting the emperor isn't really something you consider in your every day life; indeed most of the poor tended towards being supportive of absolute monarchies.

Very particularly true.  I'm not using family history as an proof I'm merely using it as an example.  They had to leave.  After the failure of Democracy in Europe millions fled to the US.  It wasn't a hypothetical, "insulting an emperor", they lost a war.  A very large number of people came here as refugees. The Irish had to leave because for some reason the richest, most powerful country in the world was wracked by famines.  Most immigrants did not settle out west.  Western settlement tended by done by a small class of frontiersmen who would acquire land from the government (it wasn't always free), cultivate it for a while then sell and move further west.  Most immigrants settled in cities (or quickly built cities).

But let me ask you, what proof do you have that, "most of the wealthier migrants chose the uk rather than the Americas. "?

[Razgovory]

You sure about that?

Pretty sure there was no popular vote for President prior to 1868. Given that is what their State Constitution said and all.

Technically nobody does.  I thought the S.C thing was worked out in practice in the 1840's.

Technically nobody has a popular vote for President? Ok fine. There was no popular vote for the electors for President. In what sense was it worked out in practice?

I thought the land restrictions on voting in South Carolina had ended in the 1840's.