Star Wars Discussion Thread contains spoilers (and may contain nuts)

[KRonn]

I saw the latest Star Wars, Han Solo's younger years. It was ok, not great. I like the genre of space based movies and TV shows so I like the SW stuff. I also like the new Star Trek and new characters. So for me, I'm happy to see these movie sagas continue, prequel and otherwise. I mostly liked the SW sequels with the new characters and story lines.

[Solmyr]

I thought Solo was entertaining enough, though many other characters were more interesting than Han. I even wanted to see more of Darth Maul, so I guess I'll have to watch the animated series sometime.

[Syt]

Haven't watched Solo yet. Bringing back Maul seemed like the stupidest thing at first, but he became a pretty decent character in the two animated shows.

[celedhring]

I think that Solo was pretty ok myself. My expectations were very low, but I was pleasantly surprised. I think its biggest problem was that several of the supporting characters end up being more interesting than Solo himself. The filmmakers didn't fully commit to making him a more nuanced/egotistical character (or making a convincing case as of why he becomes one) - I guess so out of worry of making him unlikeable.

Maul seemed a cliffhanger for a followup that fortunately seems it won't happen. Solo and the Force just wouldn't mix pre-original trilogy.

[Berkut]

I would love to see an attempt to do something like redeeming an evil character, maybe someone like Maul.

See if you can show the story from the other side in a manner that makes the viewer think "OK, I can see why these previously 'evil' characters have done what they did, why it makes sense for them..."

This was done kind of with Vader, but not really. Anakin was a good guy who became evil, and then returned to good. I would like to see an attempt to tell the story from the side of a antagonist that makes you understand better why it makes sense for them other than "Because I am evil!"

[KRonn]

Good idea Berk. A character driven story line from that angle would have some strong substance to it, fleshing out a whole other side and story line. It'll be interesting if something like that's in the works as a change of pace. I wonder how audiences would like such a change? 

[crazy canuck]

I would love to see an attempt to do something like redeeming an evil character, maybe someone like Maul.

See if you can show the story from the other side in a manner that makes the viewer think "OK, I can see why these previously 'evil' characters have done what they did, why it makes sense for them..."

This was done kind of with Vader, but not really. Anakin was a good guy who became evil, and then returned to good. I would like to see an attempt to tell the story from the side of a antagonist that makes you understand better why it makes sense for them other than "Because I am evil!"

There is a well developed lore explaining the dark side and the motivations of characters who turn to the dark side which already goes beyond explaining their motivations as "because I am evil".

[Oexmelin]

This was done kind of with Vader, but not really. Anakin was a good guy who became evil, and then returned to good. I would like to see an attempt to tell the story from the side of a antagonist that makes you understand better why it makes sense for them other than "Because I am evil!"

I think Kreia, from KOTOR2 was a better villain than all subsequent ones. In fact, even the other, underdeveloped villains of KOTOR2 have kernels of stories more interesting than what we have seen since then.

But otherwise, I am divided on making evil character understandable/relatable. We have had a number of all-too relatable villains in recent tv productions, and I think it backfires into a celebration of might and 'badassery' , rather than building empathy for a character's torment... Star Wars was a fairy tale epic at its base, not a character study. Fairy tale villains serve the purpose of asserting clearly the antagonist as an ideal-typical incarnation of evil.

[Syt]

I think in Star Wars you have different types of villains:
- truly evil ones: e.g. Palpatine, Jabba. In it purely for themselves.
- those who want to do good and end up corrupted: Anakin, possibly Kylo Ren, Assaj Ventress to some degree, ...
- those who think that the "evil" side - e.g. the Empire - is, warts and all, on the whole doing the right thing: e.g. Thrawn, many "just doing their job" Imperials

[crazy canuck]

This was done kind of with Vader, but not really. Anakin was a good guy who became evil, and then returned to good. I would like to see an attempt to tell the story from the side of a antagonist that makes you understand better why it makes sense for them other than "Because I am evil!"

I think Kreia, from KOTOR2 was a better villain than all subsequent ones. In fact, even the other, underdeveloped villains of KOTOR2 have kernels of stories more interesting than what we have seen since then.

But otherwise, I am divided on making evil character understandable/relatable. We have had a number of all-too relatable villains in recent tv productions, and I think it backfires into a celebration of might and 'badassery' , rather than building empathy for a character's torment... Star Wars was a fairy tale epic at its base, not a character study. Fairy tale villains serve the purpose of asserting clearly the antagonist as an ideal-typical incarnation of evil.

Or to use the analysis of Joseph Campbell, the Star Wars villains serve the purpose of villains in mythology.

[Berkut]

This was done kind of with Vader, but not really. Anakin was a good guy who became evil, and then returned to good. I would like to see an attempt to tell the story from the side of a antagonist that makes you understand better why it makes sense for them other than "Because I am evil!"

I think Kreia, from KOTOR2 was a better villain than all subsequent ones. In fact, even the other, underdeveloped villains of KOTOR2 have kernels of stories more interesting than what we have seen since then.

But otherwise, I am divided on making evil character understandable/relatable. We have had a number of all-too relatable villains in recent tv productions, and I think it backfires into a celebration of might and 'badassery' , rather than building empathy for a character's torment... Star Wars was a fairy tale epic at its base, not a character study. Fairy tale villains serve the purpose of asserting clearly the antagonist as an ideal-typical incarnation of evil.

I think that is fair, and would probably agree if the franchise was limited to just a singular storyline, say the movies.

But it seems to be branching off quite a bit into different viewpoints, and looking for a more expanded identity than just the straight up good vs. evil fairy tale trope.

I think sticking to just that model is inevitably going to get stale. It isn't a bad model, but it is rather limited, there is only so many times you can tell the basic story of good guy/badguywhoonlyexiststoopposethegoodguy in the same universe before you need to start getting a little more expansive in your approach, IMO.

[celedhring]

That seems more likely to happen in the new TV show than in the movies. It's hard to build a blockbuster film around a villain figure (it's been done, mind) and Disney aren't going to take the risk.

[Sophie Scholl]

I could see it working for one of the "A Star Wars Story" movies they're doing.  The main franchise setting should stay with the typical tropes though in my opinion.  The opening of the universe/setting is, for me, one of the most interesting aspects of the Disney buyout.  I loved the Clone Trooper novels by Karen Traviss, the Clone focused animated episodes, and the background character/non-main character driven books and cartoon episodes for the most part.  The ability to bring a movie level of production to such things is awesome, a la Rogue One.  While imperfect, it was definitely my favorite of the new movies that have been made.

[Valmy]

This was done kind of with Vader, but not really. Anakin was a good guy who became evil, and then returned to good. I would like to see an attempt to tell the story from the side of a antagonist that makes you understand better why it makes sense for them other than "Because I am evil!"

I think Kreia, from KOTOR2 was a better villain than all subsequent ones. In fact, even the other, underdeveloped villains of KOTOR2 have kernels of stories more interesting than what we have seen since then.

But otherwise, I am divided on making evil character understandable/relatable. We have had a number of all-too relatable villains in recent tv productions, and I think it backfires into a celebration of might and 'badassery' , rather than building empathy for a character's torment... Star Wars was a fairy tale epic at its base, not a character study. Fairy tale villains serve the purpose of asserting clearly the antagonist as an ideal-typical incarnation of evil.

I completely agree. I don't think Star Wars works at all outside of that fairy tale concept it is based on. I find the attempts to explore the concepts behind it really bad.

Thought KOTOR2 really worked and I think the reason was that it was a computer RPG so you, the viewer, were able to react to what Kreia and the other two villains were saying and doing instead of being told how you should react to it. So it was a very well done deconstruction of the themes. But I do not think it works outside of that format. Well ok it may work for somebody but it really does not work for me.

[Valmy]

I think sticking to just that model is inevitably going to get stale. It isn't a bad model, but it is rather limited, there is only so many times you can tell the basic story of good guy/badguywhoonlyexiststoopposethegoodguy in the same universe before you need to start getting a little more expansive in your approach, IMO.

Well that is the thing. There is just not that much meat on the Star Wars bone to chew on. Star Wars is very well designed to tell that basic story but little else. At least that is my feeling.