Star Wars Discussion Thread contains spoilers (and may contain nuts)

[celedhring]

Phantom Menace looks really good now

No. Just no.

[Habbaku]

I have to question someone's opinion on the new Star Wars movies when they say insane shit like that.

[grumbler]

Phantom Menace looks really good now

No. Just no.

Phantom Menace is easily better than TLJ.  That doesn't make it good, of course, but the first 15 minutes of TLJ has more "kill me now to make it stop" moments than are in all of TPM.

[Berkut]

The entire idea of the new movies is just kind of stupid.

The New Order, the "good guys" suddenly being some kind of rag tag outfit after the war was won against the Empire, none of it makes any fucking sense at all.

The most annoying thing to me is that none of it is necessary. Any semi-competent writer could create a plausible world where the protagonists have a meaningful conflict with whatever it is you need to create in a universe as large as the entire fictional galaxy.

[Tonitrus]

I tend to agree.  Obviously of all the Empire's structure wouldn't just fall apart either...but the new plot just feels like it's recycling the Rebel Alliance back into being the RA again, and created a new, lamer version of the Emperor...who was also seemingly above the Emperor's level the entire time.  Makes the Sith look some bad multi-level marketing scheme.

[Oexmelin]

The genre of the original trilogy was epic. It followed the tropes of the genre, which made it recognizable, but with incredible visual flair. Ever since, all attempts to continue (or extend) *that* story with other forms of sensibility that would otherwise preserve the epic nature of the original story have failed, for good reason. You can't begin with the good guys triumphant in an epic. Nor can an epic have the moral ambiguity and political manoeuvering that, say, a "let's now win the peace" storyline would have imposed. That's why when Sauron dies, the orcs vanish - Tolkien's conceit to his time, and his war experience, was the return to the Shire - and that bit is now clearly the least understood of LoTR (with perhaps the songs, in the books). 

The prequel could have done it, with more Beowulf, and less Days of Our Lives - the doomed journey of a cursed hero. But after? I can't see a good way to do it with the same characters/universe that would preserve the epic tone, unless perhaps on the model of the curse which requires the young inexperienced hero to seek out the wise and benevolent emperor from afar, i.e. Rey seeking Luke for whatever reason could have taken a lot longer. But it would have changed the scale quite a bit into a much more personal journey - which is what I thought it would be after seeing that beautiful trailer for TFA.   

[Valmy]

Makes the Sith look some bad multi-level marketing scheme.

Only less evil.

[Syt]

The entire idea of the new movies is just kind of stupid.

The New Order, the "good guys" suddenly being some kind of rag tag outfit after the war was won against the Empire, none of it makes any fucking sense at all.

The most annoying thing to me is that none of it is necessary. Any semi-competent writer could create a plausible world where the protagonists have a meaningful conflict with whatever it is you need to create in a universe as large as the entire fictional galaxy.

It's explained somewhat, but mostly in novels - which, I agree, is not ideal when you just want to watch and follow the movies as most people will do, and to most people it won't make sense. I've always been of the opinion that movies should stand on their own. Additional media like books or comics can fill in some blanks, or add more background, but they shouldn't be required to understand the story.

(After Endor the Empire retreats faster than the Republic can follow, creating a vacuum of power in various places. After the scorched earth policy of the Empire and the final battle at Jakku, the remnants of the Imperials head to the Unknown Regions as part of a contingency. They rebuild there. Meanwhile, the Republic is struggling internally, mostly thanks to two factions - one supporting strong decentralization, the other a strong central authority. Leia and the Resistance believe the First Order is violating the disarmament treaties and plan an attack, but they're considered paranoid, relics of a bygone war who can't let go of the conflict. Some worlds support them covertly.

The "Centralist" faction is meanwhile covertly supported by the First Order, and when the Hosnian System is destroyed by Starkiller base, they support the First Order openly which allows them to take over.

At least that's my understanding, might be off a bit.

Much of the info re: Republic vs. Resistance vs. First Order is contained in a cut scene from TFA where Leia talks to her liaison on Hosnian Prime who is trying to gather more support - kind of inexplicable to me why this was cut.)

[Tamas]

The entire idea of the new movies is just kind of stupid.

The New Order, the "good guys" suddenly being some kind of rag tag outfit after the war was won against the Empire, none of it makes any fucking sense at all.

The most annoying thing to me is that none of it is necessary. Any semi-competent writer could create a plausible world where the protagonists have a meaningful conflict with whatever it is you need to create in a universe as large as the entire fictional galaxy.

It's explained somewhat, but mostly in novels - which, I agree, is not ideal when you just want to watch and follow the movies as most people will do, and to most people it won't make sense. I've always been of the opinion that movies should stand on their own. Additional media like books or comics can fill in some blanks, or add more background, but they shouldn't be required to understand the story.

(After Endor the Empire retreats faster than the Republic can follow, creating a vacuum of power in various places. After the scorched earth policy of the Empire and the final battle at Jakku, the remnants of the Imperials head to the Unknown Regions as part of a contingency. They rebuild there. Meanwhile, the Republic is struggling internally, mostly thanks to two factions - one supporting strong decentralization, the other a strong central authority. Leia and the Resistance believe the First Order is violating the disarmament treaties and plan an attack, but they're considered paranoid, relics of a bygone war who can't let go of the conflict. Some worlds support them covertly.

The "Centralist" faction is meanwhile covertly supported by the First Order, and when the Hosnian System is destroyed by Starkiller base, they support the First Order openly which allows them to take over.

At least that's my understanding, might be off a bit.

Much of the info re: Republic vs. Resistance vs. First Order is contained in a cut scene from TFA where Leia talks to her liaison on Hosnian Prime who is trying to gather more support - kind of inexplicable to me why this was cut.)

I appreciate that Syt but I am pretty sure the book writers came up with that to explain the ridiculous premise of the new movies.

i kind of like Force Awakens, except for the new Death Star idiocy.

Last Jedi was incredibly horrible. I struggle to think of a worse movie overall, let alone in the Star Wars  universe. Allegedly, whatever overarching plot lines Abrams had in mind when making FA has been thrown out by the hack making Last Jedi, so the whole sequel trilogy is now guaranteedly ruined.

Solo was ok.

Rogue One was pretty good, and easily the best of the new bunch.


However, I am really getting de-sensitised for Star Wars stuff, with all this stuff coming out. When all you had was 3 movies, that made every scene, ship, etc. special and let your imagination fill in a lot of the holes. Now with SW coming out of our ears its less fun.

I don't think I'll even go to the 3rd movie in the sequel trilogy, but mostly because the Last Jedi ruined all chance of me being interested in the story. Is it even releasing this year? Or at all?

[Tonitrus]

The best hope we have is that critical backlash against TLJ is such that they have to make a comeback for the trilogy finale.

But it feels like that's going to be a Hail Mary.

[Habbaku]

I feel like it's going to be another JJ Abrams nostalgia-fest. Probably a 4th Death Star, too.

[Valmy]

The best hope we have is that critical backlash against TLJ is such that they have to make a comeback for the trilogy finale.

But it feels like that's going to be a Hail Mary.

They have nothing.

There is really nothing more to do with Star Wars after the original trilogy. People have been trying to find something interesting about it ever since and have failed every single time.

I got a little interested again with the KOTOR series but I think that was just an aberration. And besides it was largely just Bioware making a Bioware game and Obsidian making an Obsidian game and they just happened to take place in a Star Wars context more than anything else.

[Valmy]

I feel like it's going to be another JJ Abrams nostalgia-fest. Probably a 4th Death Star, too.

I remember as a Kindergartner thinking it was dumb to bring back the Death Star for The Return of the Jedi. Not only did Abrams bring it back but he fucking made fun of himself for doing it in his own movie. I mean if you know it is lame then don't do it, apologizing for it in the script is not going to make up for it.

[FunkMonk]

The best hope we have is that critical backlash against TLJ is such that they have to make a comeback for the trilogy finale.

But it feels like that's going to be a Hail Mary.

They have nothing.

There is really nothing more to do with Star Wars after the original trilogy. People have been trying to find something interesting about it ever since and have failed every single time.

I got a little interested again with the KOTOR series but I think that was just an aberration. And besides it was largely just Bioware making a Bioware game and Obsidian making an Obsidian game and they just happened to take place in a Star Wars context more than anything else.

And EA has destroyed Star Wars as a video game brand with its last Star Wars game, Battlefront 2.

Star Wars is dead lmao

[frunk]

They have nothing.

There is really nothing more to do with Star Wars after the original trilogy. People have been trying to find something interesting about it ever since and have failed every single time.

I got a little interested again with the KOTOR series but I think that was just an aberration. And besides it was largely just Bioware making a Bioware game and Obsidian making an Obsidian game and they just happened to take place in a Star Wars context more than anything else.

There are plenty of things you can do with Star Wars, but recycling the hits like TFA did is the worst option for developing the franchise.  That only leads to dead ends.  TLJ didn't work but at least it tried something different.

Rogue One is the one real bright spot, but considering the way the studio handled Solo I doubt they'll be allowing much creative freedom in future Star Wars movies.