Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[HVC]

There are a bunch of different factors.

Labour for the Romans was relatively cheap (they could use slaves). The materials used, such as stone flags, were very durable. The purpose of the roads was primarily military - to be able to march troops to any part of the empire quickly. So a massive investment in very durable major roads made sense. The wear on such roads tended to be less than on modern roads - no gigantic trucks - so the surface wasn't as worn. The Romans were not using high speed vehicles, so facing the roads with stone flags was okay for them. They needed a network of major roads to move troops about, and the side-roads didn't have to be as durable (and have not lasted).

In modern times, we want *lots* of roads capable of handling comparatively gigantic vehicles going at great speed, and build quickly and as cheaply as possible, where labour costs are high. The result is highways and byways that are not as durable, and require more maintenance. We could not afford to build every road to last forever, nor is it particularly desirable to do so.

Every engineering choice is a trade off of more or less desirable features. Ours is better suited to our particular needs. Part of the trade-off for smooth and comparatively cheap ashphalt road facing is that it must be maintained.

So... bring back slave labour?

[Malthus]

So... bring back slave labour?

Clearly that is better than having people with fancy degrees telling everyone what to do. Keep things simple, like in the good old days ...

[Valmy]

I mean an engineering degree is just a bachelor's degree. Hardly some fancy elitist thing. Are they demanding everything be designed intuitively by high school dropouts?

[Syt]

So... bring back slave labour?

The U.S. has a huge prison population that provides cheap labor in various areas. Might as well shift them towards building roads.

[The Brain]

Weren't roads often built by the legions?

[Malthus]

Weren't roads often built by the legions?

Yes. Depends on the time period in which they were built. Many of the great highways were first built with labour from the legions, under the republic; though in the imperial period, slaves were more commonly used. Also varied from place to place.

Given that the roads were originally mainly for military use, using the legions to build them made sense; though later, slaves owned by what amounted to public/private contractors were more common, or so I've read.

Either way - labour was comparatively cheap.

[Malthus]

I mean an engineering degree is just a bachelor's degree. Hardly some fancy elitist thing. Are they demanding everything be designed intuitively by high school dropouts?

If it was good enough for the Khmer Rouge, it's good enough for us! 😀

[Oexmelin]

I mean an engineering degree is just a bachelor's degree. Hardly some fancy elitist thing. Are they demanding everything be designed intuitively by high school dropouts?

I think you underestimate how fancy, and elite, a university diploma can be to someone who never completed high school. What many workers often ask is that their experience is considered, rather than being brushed aside, or belittled because of their status as "high school dropout". 

[DGuller]

You left off salt.  Salting roads kills them.  If I'm not mistaken, potholes are pretty much unknown in warmer places.

I would think that it has less to do with salt than it does with water under the road expanding as it freezes.

[Berkut]

You left off salt.  Salting roads kills them.  If I'm not mistaken, potholes are pretty much unknown in warmer places.

A nearly perfect example of causation versus correlation.

Ice is what causes potholes, not salt, as I understand it.

Of course, places with lots of snow and ice also have lots of salt to combat said ice...

[Admiral Yi]

I thought salt caused cracks to form in the asphalt, into which water would move, freeze, and expand, causing the crack to turn into a pothole.

[DGuller]

I mean an engineering degree is just a bachelor's degree. Hardly some fancy elitist thing. Are they demanding everything be designed intuitively by high school dropouts?

I think you underestimate how fancy, and elite, a university diploma can be to someone who never completed high school. What many workers often ask is that their experience is considered, rather than being brushed aside, or belittled because of their status as "high school dropout".

To be devil's advocate, this kind of conflict usually goes both ways, in many different fields, where one specialty plays the role of an engineer, and another specialty plays the role of a mechanic.  To the mechanics, it may seem like engineers belittle their valuable know-how.  To the engineers, it may seem like mechanics have put too much stock in the fact that they did things in a stupid way for a very long time. 

In the big picture, experience is a kludge to plug for imperfect knowledge;  with perfect knowledge and understanding, you would get things right on the money the very first day.  This is why I think that in the long run, then "engineers" would have the better of the argument.  Knowledge has no limit, whereas experience does.

[DGuller]

I thought salt caused cracks to form in the asphalt, into which water would move, freeze, and expand, causing the crack to turn into a pothole.

I googled it, and actually everyone is right, although your reasoning is not.  It's not that salt corrodes the asphalt, but rather salt lowers the freezing point of water and increases the number of freeze and thaw cycles, which is what causes expansion and contraction that cracks the asphalt.  Water is what causes potholes, but salted water is more effective at it.

[Oexmelin]

To be devil's advocate, this kind of conflict usually goes both ways,

Sure. In an actual workplace where perfect knowledge remains a platonic ideal, and where imperfect engineers and workers coexist, it may be worth it to treat people with respect, dignity and humility.

[Admiral Yi]

I googled it, and actually everyone is right, although your reasoning is not.  It's not that salt corrodes the asphalt, but rather salt lowers the freezing point of water and increases the number of freeze and thaw cycles, which is what causes expansion and contraction that cracks the asphalt.  Water is what causes potholes, but salted water is more effective at it.

asoka