Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Valmy]

Wait so Canadians also get together and talk about how much Trump sucks? Man.

[crazy canuck]

Wait so Canadians also get together and talk about how much Trump sucks? Man.

To paraphrase the losing Republican candidate in Kentucky, if you have not heard of all the things Trump has done to mess up the Canadian US relationship, you have been living under a rock.

[Malthus]

Wait so Canadians also get together and talk about how much Trump sucks? Man.

It's a popular topic up here. Not least because practically everyone agrees, so it's unlikely to be controversial.

In the US, if you rant about how much Trump sucks, there is always the possibility that someone present may be a Trump supporter. Very few of those here (at least, in Toronto). I don't think I've actually seen one in the wild in Toronto. Supporting Trump would be  seen by many here as being deliberately offensive, I think. As in, 'no-one could possibly actually mean that, so you must be saying it just to piss people off'.

[Valmy]

A francophone Trump supporter: Toronto's ultimate unique snowflake?

I was just surprised that he is so hated even by people who seemingly had little to fear by his antics, but as CC reminded me perhaps that is not the case 

[crazy canuck]

He has done so much damage to the US that it might be hard for an American to realize just how much damage he has done to the countries who have had close ties with the US. We have discussed before if the US will ever be able to recover the kind of trusting relationships it once had.  I think it unlikely, no one thinking about risk management in any serious way will make future plans based on something like this not happening again.

[Malthus]

Yeah, it's most unfortunate.

Prior to Trump, fearing and distrusting America's motives and actions was more associated with envious nationalists - an often tiresome and reactionary crew - and die-hard leftists. Most people in Canada assumed that the US was a flawed colossus - basically the good guys on the international scene, if sometimes misled (overlooking some Cold War excesses). 

Now, it just seems rational.  They can't be trusted. Their government is now lead by a pathological liar who has no honour, who willingly betrays his nation's allies and breaks agreements as he sees fit. He proclaims a creed of nationalist selfishness, that he's out for the good of his nation at the cost of others, but even this appears to be a lie. 

[Iormlund]

Prior to Trump, fearing and distrusting America's motives and actions was more associated with envious nationalists - an often tiresome and reactionary crew - and die-hard leftists.

Did you forget the Irak fiasco? Without it Languish would not exist.

And let's not even mention Snowden.

The US government has worked hard to tarnish its image for quite a while. All that changed is that now there's a deranged narcissist at the helm.

[Malthus]

Prior to Trump, fearing and distrusting America's motives and actions was more associated with envious nationalists - an often tiresome and reactionary crew - and die-hard leftists.

Did you forget the Irak fiasco? Without it Languish would not exist.

And let's not even mention Snowden.

The US government has worked hard to tarnish its image for quite a while. All that changed is that now there's a deranged narcissist at the helm.

Iraq wasn't the US alone though - don't forget, the UK was in on that as well.

It is true that the US has in the past done many bad things - as has many nations, in the pursuit of their perceived self-interest. The US is more powerful than other nations, so the bad things it has done have been worse in impact.

What has changed, is the overall impression of the nation's leadership in popular culture.

Before, it was 'okay, basically good guys, but have done bad things from time to time (name examples)'.

Now, it is 'okay, they aren't really good guys anymore, because their leaders can't be trusted to keep agreements or not betray you, but still better than (say) Russia or China, who are outright villains''. That's a major step down in the popular narrative. 

[Iormlund]

I guess we disagree there. Personally I don't think a government that manufactures evidence to start wars or quietly collects data on a massive scale even on its own citizens can be "basically good guys".

As I said, the only thing that Trump changes for me is how clear it is that it is foolish to trust a government with these powers in the first place.



And as far as the UK involvement in Irak goes, every time Blair comes up in a discussion elsewhere on the Net I see him mentioned with contempt in connection with it. Despite all his achievements in office, the war seems to be his legacy.

[Valmy]

I take it Spain doesn't glory in being a former member of the "Coalition of the Willing"?

[Iormlund]

I take it Spain doesn't glory in being a former member of the "Coalition of the Willing"?

It was deeply unpopular. It was a personal crusade by then Prez Aznar against massive popular and political opinion (in fact every single other party in Parliament).

[Admiral Yi]

I remember that pic of the Spanish chick sporting a suicide bomber vest.  So edgy.

[Razgovory]

In my experience, people rarely rant against people who are present.

You should meet my brother.  On second thought, you probably shouldn't.  When ever he is under a lot of pressure he goes starts screaming and raving.  Yesterday he scream to my mother that she was a stupid bitch.

Thankfully he will be moving to Kansas shortly.

[Iormlund]

I remember that pic of the Spanish chick sporting a suicide bomber vest.  So edgy.

I don't, but it went well beyond the nutty left. IIRC opposition was around 85%, so even the majority of conservatives were against the war, probably many party members as well. That's why it is widely considered a personal crusade (Aznar wanted to realign our foreign policy toward the US and away from France/Germany).

[Admiral Yi]

I don't, but it went well beyond the nutty left. IIRC opposition was around 85%, so even the majority of conservatives were against the war, probably many party members as well. That's why it is widely considered a personal crusade (Aznar wanted to realign our foreign policy toward the US and away from France/Germany).

I know, and I wasn't trying to refute you.