Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Sophie Scholl]

I love how it spends the entire post building the case for why some people's votes shouldn't count or count less than others and then finishes with, "And this children is WHY you have an Electoral College.  It's a safety net so that EVERYONE'S vote counts."  Which is it?  Also, fuck the Electoral College.

[grumbler]

The electoral college could work as designed if Congress simply mandated that states abandon the winner-take-all distribution of electors.  That's the insane part, not the part where smaller states have a slightly disproportionate number of electors.

[crazy canuck]

Even if that were the case why keep it? 

[Razgovory]

It's not even accurate.  Clinton didn't win 57 counties, she won 487 counties.  She also gained significantly more of the popular vote than is described here.

[crazy canuck]

It's not even accurate.  Clinton didn't win 57 counties, she won 487 counties.  She also gained significantly more of the popular vote than is described here.

The flawed claim about Trump's winning 3,084 out of 3,141 counties was fairly clearly based on a misunderstanding of a 15 November 2016 Breitbart article. That article did not hold that Donald Trump had won county-wide popular votes by a 3084 to 57 margin, but rather that if one excluded all the votes in 57 particular counties from the national total and only counted votes in the remaining 3084 counties, Donald Trump would have won the national popular vote by a 7.5 million votes

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-clinton-counties-won/

[Tonitrus]

Even if that were the case why keep it?

I tend to favor keeping the EC, as I see it as serving the same purpose in the Executive branch that the Senate serves in the Legislative branch.  A way of keeping a few, heavily populated states from dominating the EB in the same way that those same states could dominate if we had just a House of Representatives.

I think this is more important in our system than in a parliamentary democracy (especially with as much power as the executive wields), as ours is much harder to remove from power.   

But as grumbler said, I also agree that there is much about the mechanics of the EC that could stand reform.

[grumbler]

Even if that were the case why keep it?

Because it is written into the US Constitution.  Making changes to the Constitution is difficult, and making a change that revokes a compromise that was necessary to get the smaller states to ratify the constitution is even more difficult. 

Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

Getting three-quarters of the states to agree to this change would be difficult, as it would require a number of states to give up a status quo currently favorable to them.

[crazy canuck]

Ok, but I was talking about the merits of such a system.  What is the argument for?

[The Minsky Moment]

King's County (Brooklyn) has about the same population as the smallest 4 US states by population, who collectively elect 8 Senators.  I don't think big cities are over-represented in America. Empty fields and glaciers on the other hand seem to be doing just fine.

[grumbler]

Ok, but I was talking about the merits of such a system.  What is the argument for?

That seems a totally worthless angle to pursue. "Ok, but I was talking about the merits of anti gravity.  What is the argument for?"

[Valmy]

King's County (Brooklyn) has about the same population as the smallest 4 US states by population, who collectively elect 8 Senators.  I don't think big cities are over-represented in America. Empty fields and glaciers on the other hand seem to be doing just fine.

Yeah the countryside gets total control over their local government and is over represented at the state and the federal level already. I don't really see how the Electoral College is needed for that purpose and indeed the Electoral College was not designed to do that.

But there is little hope of it ever being removed. But reforms might be a good idea to ensure a truly absurd result never happens.

[Syt]

[Valmy]

I mean I guess a few of those people are that old.

I am not sure what laws they are referring to though.

[crazy canuck]

Ok, but I was talking about the merits of such a system.  What is the argument for?

That seems a totally worthless angle to pursue. "Ok, but I was talking about the merits of anti gravity.  What is the argument for?"

Ok, no point in discussing the merits of the US system.  Got it

[Oexmelin]

I mean I guess a few of those people are that old.

I am not sure what laws they are referring to though.

Valmy, you might benefit from reading this   https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/04/right-wing-groups-are-training-young-conservatives-to-win-the-next-meme-war/