Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Valmy]

I am not really proud of my heritage really...I mean all I did was be born. But I am sort of fond of those people and I enjoy having a personal DNA type connection to them. Pride would seem to suggest that somehow they make me special and I don't think that is true.

[Syt]

When you think, "Well, at least Mart's analogies weren't *that* bad ..."

[Richard Hakluyt]

"Pride" is being interpreted quite negatively here. It could also be a motivating factor for ensuring that one's country behaved well, that important traditions of tolerance and fairmindedness are preserved for example.

The problem may be that "pride" has been stolen by so-called patriots with no interest in the larger picture, just in their own bigoted particularism. This puts more thoughtful people off.

[The Brain]

"Pride" is being interpreted quite negatively here. It could also be a motivating factor for ensuring that one's country behaved well, that important traditions of tolerance and fairmindedness are preserved for example.

The problem may be that "pride" has been stolen by so-called patriots with no interest in the larger picture, just in their own bigoted particularism. This puts more thoughtful people off.

Well it IS a deadly sin.

[Malthus]

"Pride in one's heritage or attributes" appears to have a different meaning than "pride" does in other contexts. It usually means "a feeling of self-worth, support and interest". It's the opposite of "ashamed". 

As in the "Gay Pride Parade" in Toronto. It makes no sense to be "proud" of being gay (any more than it makes sense to be 'proud' of being straight), but everyone understands what it means - 'we are open about who we are and not ashamed of it'.

The problem is that, while this works for minorities who have traditionally been oppressed, it is more problematic for majorities who have not ... but no better term has been invented. 

[garbon]

Well, yes, in that sense it is pride in something that you were raised/told to be ashamed about (i.e. being black, being gay, being a woman).

[Malthus]

Well, yes, in that sense it is pride in something that you were raised/told to be ashamed about (i.e. being black, being gay, being a woman).

Exactly. It's basically reactive.

That's why "Gay Pride" or "Black Pride" makes intuitive sense, but "Straight Pride" or "White Pride" is more problematic - in real life, most people would assume, in the latter cases, that what the person was "reacting against" was gays and blacks (or other minorities).

Black Pride = a minority reacting against a history of oppression; asserting their right to self-worth. The message: 'we have every right to equal treatment; we are not ashamed of who we are'.

White Pride = a majority asserting its dominance. 

... thinking further, it seems to me that this is the issue on which labels such as "White" or "Black" make sense as group identifiers. To have pride in one's heritage, for the majority, isn't or should not be a matter of the social constrict race, but of some other characteristic (national origin, etc.). "White pride" only makes sense in the context of White/non-White relations, but other characteristics ("Ukrainian Pride"?) can make sense outside of that.

[Valmy]

Any sort of ethnic pride, even when that is an ethnicity that gets shit on regularly, always makes me a bit nervous. But nationalism of any sort makes me feel that way. I mean there is only a small step from 'black pride' which is healthy in a US context, to some sort of black nationalism or black separatism which is not. Or at least it seems that way to me. But I could be wrong.

[Razgovory]

I am not really proud of my heritage really...I mean all I did was be born. But I am sort of fond of those people and I enjoy having a personal DNA type connection to them. Pride would seem to suggest that somehow they make me special and I don't think that is true.

I was born special.

[dps]

Well, yes, in that sense it is pride in something that you were raised/told to be ashamed about (i.e. being black, being gay, being a woman).

Exactly. It's basically reactive.

That's why "Gay Pride" or "Black Pride" makes intuitive sense, but "Straight Pride" or "White Pride" is more problematic - in real life, most people would assume, in the latter cases, that what the person was "reacting against" was gays and blacks (or other minorities).

Black Pride = a minority reacting against a history of oppression; asserting their right to self-worth. The message: 'we have every right to equal treatment; we are not ashamed of who we are'.

White Pride = a majority asserting its dominance. 

... thinking further, it seems to me that this is the issue on which labels such as "White" or "Black" make sense as group identifiers. To have pride in one's heritage, for the majority, isn't or should not be a matter of the social constrict race, but of some other characteristic (national origin, etc.). "White pride" only makes sense in the context of White/non-White relations, but other characteristics ("Ukrainian Pride"?) can make sense outside of that.

There's also the concept of "civic pride" which is viewed as a positive.  When I hear of someone taking pride in their heritage, I view it along the same lines of civic pride.  Pride in one's own heritage need not involve dislike of people of other heritages.

[Valmy]

It shouldn't...but yet...

[crazy canuck]

When you think, "Well, at least Mart's analogies weren't *that* bad ..."

Wait, Trump is going to charge admission fees for anyone who wants a Green Card.

[Tamas]

That has been in place since forever. If you invest X amount of money in the country you get a visa.

[crazy canuck]

That has been in place since forever. If you invest X amount of money in the country you get a visa.

Hasn't been for just anyone who wants to enter 

[grumbler]

That has been in place since forever. If you invest X amount of money in the country you get a visa.

Hasn't been for just anyone who wants to enter 

Only Norwegians.