Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[garbon]

[The Brain]

America hasn't even existed 300 years, so I will disregard everything the guy said.

[Grey Fox]

The land mass has been know as America since April 25, 1507.

[The Brain]

The land mass has been know as America since April 25, 1507.

They're not talking about the land mass. They're talking balding eagles and apple pie.

[garbon]

I'm assuming they are talking about people in the colonies which gets you 1619 when Jamestown got slaves.

[The Brain]

Got slaves? "Hi, this is Brain. Yeah, I meant to call you... Yeah... Anyway I just got some results back and I think you should test yourself. Yeah. Slaves."

[Valmy]

Enslaved? No that was not how the African slave trade worked. They bought people who were already slaves.

[Oexmelin]

Enslaved? No that was not how the African slave trade worked. They bought people who were already slaves.

...And thus their children were promptly freed?

[Valmy]

Children of slaves are slaves. Hey they didn't make the rules, those had been around for thousands of years.

[Oexmelin]

Children of slaves are slaves. Hey they didn't make the rules, those had been around for thousands of years.

The rules? They purchased the slaves. They did not trip over them. They purchased enslaved people, who had been enslaved in one context, and made sure to keep them enslaved in their own context. They made the rules; they did not care, nor want, to keep slaves as slaves in an "African" context. "African" slavery (in reality a series of different practices) generally did not extend to one's progeny, and was considered a temporary status. Yet, after a few decades of experimentation of a more fluid status, planters of the Americas transformed slavery into super rigid institutions with few to no possibilities of escape. They transformed a status bound in circumstances (losing in war, owing debt) into something associated with "race". They adopted only the "Roman" definitions of slavery when it suited them, and dropped those which were inconvenient. They celebrated Christianity, and forgot that conversion was supposed to free slaves.

So yeah, they enslaved people. They developed a whole system to *keep* them enslaved. With constant violence. It's not a fucking accident of history of which poor planters were the unfortunate victims of weird African practices.

[Valmy]

Children of slaves are slaves. Hey they didn't make the rules, those had been around for thousands of years.

The rules? They purchased the slaves. They did not trip over them. They purchased enslaved people, who had been enslaved in one context, and made sure to keep them enslaved in their own context. They made the rules; they did not care, nor want, to keep slaves as slaves in an "African" context. "African" slavery (in reality a series of different practices) generally did not extend to one's progeny, and was considered a temporary status. Yet, after a few decades of experimentation of a more fluid status, planters of the Americas transformed slavery into super rigid institutions with few to no possibilities of escape. They transformed a status bound in circumstances (losing in war, owing debt) into something associated with "race". They adopted only the "Roman" definitions of slavery when it suited them, and dropped those which were inconvenient. They celebrated Christianity, and forgot that conversion was supposed to free slaves.

So yeah, they enslaved people. They developed a whole system to *keep* them enslaved. With constant violence. It's not a fucking accident of history of which poor planters were the unfortunate victims of weird African practices.

People for thousands of years had enslaved people and developed systems to keep them enslaved. There is nothing admirable about it or justifiable about it. But it was normal. Heck there are tens of millions of slaves in the world today.

I don't know where you are going with the 'victims of African practices' hilarity. Slavery existed in plenty of places that were not in Africa.

In any case this is rather obnoxious. The protest was SUPPOSED to be about police reform and trying to stop brutality. But it seems it is about what...history? Something that is inherently unchangeable? Is everybody going to kneel before the flag until what? The end of time? This is the reason I was nervous about such a vague and unclear protest last year. Because to many people disrespecting the flag is basically a personal insult. They will stop listening and consider you their enemy. So if you are going to do something that big, it needs to be for a good clear cause.

[garbon]

I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

[Oexmelin]

@Valmy: Then tell me what's the problem with "enslaved".

Hilarity, really?

[Valmy]

@Valmy: Then tell me what's the problem with "enslaved".

Hilarity, really?

Just what I said. It is inaccurate and I think removes it from its context.

Yes. I never said anybody was a victim of some West African thing. That was just a personal attack on me...so yeah.

[Valmy]

I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I am just saying things that I thought were obviously true.