News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

The New Intolerance of Student Activism

Started by Martinus, November 15, 2015, 02:08:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Siege

Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2015, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 15, 2015, 02:51:35 PM
Let's please make sweeping generalizations based on a single (unfortunate) instance.  After all, isn't that what we all deplore?

Well, frankly I can't think of a single case of student activism of late that wasn't a shrill attempt at bullying people who think differently.

Whoa, Marty, you have come a long way around.
I take back all the mean things I said to you.
You are cool.


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Monoriu


mongers

"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Monoriu


The Minsky Moment

The Atlantic article is more ridiculous than whatever it is trying to target.  I don't see the problem with university administration telling students to think before dressing up in blackface. It may be sad and unfortunate that such a message needs to be delivered to Ivy League students, but given that it's appropriate.  The Christakis email was at best very naïve, and showed poor judgment -- calling it "relevant, thoughtful, civil engagement" is a pretty obvious tell that the article's author is pushing his own agenda - an inference that quickly finds further support in the snide comments about campus amenities.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Admiral Yi

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2015, 10:34:42 PM
I don't see the problem with university administration telling students to think before dressing up in blackface.

I didn't see in this article that this is what the Yale administration said.  Are you getting this from a different source?

The Minsky Moment

QuoteHowever, Halloween is also unfortunately a time when the normal thoughtfulness and sensitivity of most Yale students can sometimes be forgotten and some poor decisions can be made including wearing feathered headdresses, turbans, wearing 'war paint' or modifying skin tone or wearing blackface or redface.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Martinus

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 15, 2015, 10:34:42 PM
The Atlantic article is more ridiculous than whatever it is trying to target.  I don't see the problem with university administration telling students to think before dressing up in blackface. It may be sad and unfortunate that such a message needs to be delivered to Ivy League students, but given that it's appropriate.  The Christakis email was at best very naïve, and showed poor judgment -- calling it "relevant, thoughtful, civil engagement" is a pretty obvious tell that the article's author is pushing his own agenda - an inference that quickly finds further support in the snide comments about campus amenities.

Whatever all the facts are, seeing that screaming shrill bitch should be enough to convince any sensible individual that she is on the side of evil in this.

Admiral Yi

QuoteDear Yale students,

The end of October is quickly approaching, and along with the falling leaves and cooler nights come the Halloween celebrations on our campus and in our community. These celebrations provide opportunities for students to socialize as well as make positive contributions to our community and the New Haven community as a whole. Some upcoming events include:

• Haunted Hall Crawl & Costume Ball at Yale Peabody Museum of Natural History • Grove Street Cemetery Tours, Grove Street Cemetery, New Haven • YSO's Halloween Show, Woolsey Hall

However, Halloween is also unfortunately a time when the normal thoughtfulness and sensitivity of most Yale students can sometimes be forgotten and some poor decisions can be made including wearing feathered headdresses, turbans, wearing 'war paint' or modifying skin tone or wearing blackface or redface. These same issues and examples of cultural appropriation and/or misrepresentation are increasingly surfacing with representations of Asians and Latinos.

Yale is a community that values free expression as well as inclusivity. And while students, undergraduate and graduate, definitely have a right to express themselves, we would hope that people would actively avoid those circumstances that threaten our sense of community or disrespects, alienates or ridicules segments of our population based on race, nationality, religious belief or gender expression.

The culturally unaware or insensitive choices made by some members of our community in the past, have not just been directed toward a cultural group, but have impacted religious beliefs, Native American/Indigenous people, Socio-economic strata, Asians, Hispanic/Latino, Women, Muslims, etc. In many cases the student wearing the costume has not intended to offend, but their actions or lack of forethought have sent a far greater message than any apology could after the fact...

There is growing national concern on campuses everywhere about these issues, and we encourage Yale students to take the time to consider their costumes and the impact it may have. So, if you are planning to dress-up for Halloween, or will be attending any social gatherings planned for the weekend, please ask yourself these questions before deciding upon your costume choice:

• Wearing a funny costume? Is the humor based on "making fun" of real people, human traits or cultures?

• Wearing a historical costume? If this costume is meant to be historical, does it further misinformation or historical and cultural inaccuracies?

• Wearing a 'cultural' costume? Does this costume reduce cultural differences to jokes or stereotypes?

• Wearing a 'religious' costume? Does this costume mock or belittle someone's deeply held faith tradition?

• Could someone take offense with your costume and why?

Here is a great resource for costume ideas organized by our own Community & Consent Educators (CCEs) https://www.pinterest.com/yalecces/

We are one Yale, and the actions of one affect us all..., so in whatever fashion you choose to participate in Halloween activities, we encourage everyone to be safe and thoughtful during your celebration.

Sincerely,

The Intercultural Affairs Committee-

So Joan this is not just asking students to "think before they put on blackface."

LaCroix

it's signed the intercultural affairs committee. any reasonable student would (at worst) glance at that and think, oh god, here we go... and move on. doesn't seem that bad otherwise.

The Minsky Moment

There was an actual incident of students wearing blackface on Halloween a few years earlier.   In that context, I don't see what is so objectionable about the letter.  The letter doesn't impose or propose any sanction.  It is simply advising students to be thoughtful.  Does that really justify a rant in the Atlantic?
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Admiral Yi

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2015, 12:42:24 AM
There was an actual incident of students wearing blackface on Halloween a few years earlier.   In that context, I don't see what is so objectionable about the letter.  The letter doesn't impose or propose any sanction.  It is simply advising students to be thoughtful.  Does that really justify a rant in the Atlantic?

I don't accept your premise that the Atlantic piece is a rant.

I agree with the writer of that piece that the pushback email is a reasonable position to take, since at least to me it's plain as day that the original policy email is saying if you dress as an ethnic group other than your own you're an asshole.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2015, 12:45:55 AM
I don't accept your premise that the Atlantic piece is a rant.

I'll give an example.

QuoteIt is therefore remarkable that no fewer than 13 administrators took scarce time to compose, circulate, and co-sign a letter advising adult students on how to dress for Halloween, a cause that misguided campus activists mistake for a social-justice priority.

There are 13 individuals that are listed as signatories, but that is because it was sent by a committee of which they are members.  It should be obvious that all 13 did not "compose" and "circulate" the letter, much less take "scarce" time to do so.  As it turns out, the letter is slightly edited version of a similar letter sent by one of the signatories at a prior university post.  I.e. other than making a routine decision to send it, virtually no significant time - scarce or not - was taken.  The only way to explain the rhetoric is axe-grinding.

QuoteI agree with the writer of that piece that the pushback email is a reasonable position to take, since at least to me it's plain as day that the original policy email is saying if you dress as an ethnic group other than your own you're an asshole.

The "pushback" email is taking the position that it's OK to be an asshole.  ("regressive"/"transgressive").
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Berkut

Isn't the pushback email taking the position that people in fact have a right to be assholes, and other people don't actually HAVE to get offended by it?

I think the original "Hey, lets not be assholes" email was fine.

And I think the "Hey, you don't actually have to get all bent out of shape over people being assholes, and honestly, learning how to deal with different viewpoints is kind of important too" pushback email was fine as well.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

Admiral Yi

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 16, 2015, 12:59:45 AM
I'll give an example.

QuoteIt is therefore remarkable that no fewer than 13 administrators took scarce time to compose, circulate, and co-sign a letter advising adult students on how to dress for Halloween, a cause that misguided campus activists mistake for a social-justice priority.

There are 13 individuals that are listed as signatories, but that is because it was sent by a committee of which they are members.  It should be obvious that all 13 did not "compose" and "circulate" the letter, much less take "scarce" time to do so.  As it turns out, the letter is slightly edited version of a similar letter sent by one of the signatories at a prior university post.  I.e. other than making a routine decision to send it, virtually no significant time - scarce or not - was taken.  The only way to explain the rhetoric is axe-grinding.

Still don't see how overstating the time it took to write the email qualifies as ranting, but I'll drop it.

QuoteThe "pushback" email is taking the position that it's OK to be an asshole.  ("regressive"/"transgressive").

The pushback email is taking the position that it's OK to dress up as a black Disney character.  I don't think a white person dressed up as a black Disney character is an asshole, unless she does something else to demonstrate to me she is, and I don't see how you can think she is.