The Paris Attack Debate Thread

[Admiral Yi]

Russia just hammered Raqqa with the biggest bombing raid since Vietnam.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/17/russia-pounds-isis-with-biggest-bomber-raid-in-decades.html

Interesting that Russia is going with ISIL too, and also interesting that Turkey appears to have granted transit rights.

[Valmy]

Daesh losing is just going to create something worse. Duque's crazy non-family member will be mad at Putin. Ah just kidding he will of course blame AMURIKKKA.

[LaCroix]

I have never said all Muslims are violent.  That would be empirically ridiculous.  I have said violence is a key, unalterable component of the holy text, and that because of this sacred endorsement of violence--nay, the elevation of violence to a sacred duty-- Muslims have a higher proclivity for violence than members of other religions.

i guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. i'm not sure i can prove my argument, and i don't think you can prove your argument.

[Admiral Yi]

i guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. i'm not sure i can prove my argument, and i don't think you can prove your argument.

I can make my prima facie case very easily.  The Koran does call for violence.  Muslims do a shitload of terrorism.

[derspiess]

They do.  Sadly they do.

[Martinus]

The Post is going all in.


http://nypost.com/2015/11/16/obamas-patience-merely-gave-isis-time-to-grow/

...

Our military has the resources to shatter ISIS, but political correctness has penetrated so deep into the Pentagon that, even should a president issue the one-word order, "Win!," our initial actions would be cautious and halting. We've bred a generation of military leaders afraid of being prosecuted by their own government for the kind of errors inevitable in wartime. Instead of "leaning forward in the foxhole," our leaders lean on lawyers.

If lawyers had had to approve our World War II target lists, we couldn't have won. War is never clean or easy, and the strictures imposed on our military today just protect our enemies. Collateral damage and civilian casualties are part of combat and always will be. The most humane approach is to pile on fast and win decisively — which results in far less suffering than the sort of protracted agony we see in Syria.

The generals who won World War II would start by leveling Raqqa, the ISIS caliphate's capital. Civilians would die, but those remaining in Raqqa have embraced ISIS, as Germans did Hitler. The jihadis must be crushed. Start with their "Berlin."

Kill ten thousand, save a million.

Unthinkable? Fine. We lose.

And the jihadis? They'll always have Paris.

I agree with this. We are facing an enemy that, barring resources and ability to project its power, is at least as savage and barbaric if not much more than the nazi Germany and Japan in WWII. Yet, nothing even close to Dresden or Hiroshima bombing would even be considered these days - and this is what took the Allies to win.

[Martinus]

Daesh losing is just going to create something worse.

I think the risk of dangerous, mutated life forms emerging from a nuclear wasteland is greatly overstated, thanks to Hollywood and liberal media. 

[Razgovory]

Russia just hammered Raqqa with the biggest bombing raid since Vietnam.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/17/russia-pounds-isis-with-biggest-bomber-raid-in-decades.html

I wonder if they even had a military target in mind.  The Russians might just level the whole city and consider it a victory.  The Russians have never been shy of making a solitude and calling it peace.

[Eddie Teach]

Daesh losing is just going to create something worse.

I think the risk of dangerous, mutated life forms emerging from a nuclear wasteland is greatly overstated, thanks to Hollywood and liberal media. 

The Japanese have a share of the blame in that as well.

[LaCroix]

I can make my prima facie case very easily.  The Koran does call for violence.  Muslims do a shitload of terrorism.

we're backtracking now. i don't think you can prove that the koran is the cause of violent groups emerging.

[Martinus]

Russia just hammered Raqqa with the biggest bombing raid since Vietnam.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/17/russia-pounds-isis-with-biggest-bomber-raid-in-decades.html

Never thought I'd be cheering Russia on.

[Martinus]

I can make my prima facie case very easily.  The Koran does call for violence.  Muslims do a shitload of terrorism.

we're backtracking now. i don't think you can prove that the koran is the cause of violent groups emerging.

He doesn't need to prove the causal connection - there is what's called a factual presumption (or the "talks like a duck and walks like a duck" principle).

All he needs to show is that Koran calls for violence and that those who commit violence are quoting Koran - this is sufficient in any court of law to create a presumption that there is a causal connection between the two. The burden of proof then shifts to the other side which claims that despite these facts, there is no connection between the two.

[LaCroix]

He doesn't need to prove the causal connection - there is what's called a factual presumption (or the "talks like a duck and walks like a duck" principle).

All he needs to show is that Koran calls for violence and that those who commit violence are quoting Koran - this is sufficient in any court of law to create a presumption that there is a causal connection between the two. The burden of proof then shifts to the other side which claims that despite these facts, there is no connection between the two.

we're not in a court of law. we're on an internet forum. i've had an idea, and i've suggested it. it could be wrong, but i haven't seen anything that proves it wrong.

[Razgovory]

Well, you should know that ducks are an important feature of Polish law.  Every court room must have a duck in good standing and all officers must swear upon the duck daily.  The duck is suppose to keep away Jews, evil spirits and ring worms by it's "ferocious hissing".  Its a secular version of the Polish Catholic ritual of the goose, which is believed to have pagan origins where they used as duck instead of a goose.

[Martinus]

Well, you should know that ducks are an important feature of Polish law.  Every court room must have a duck in good standing and all officers must swear upon the duck daily.  The duck is suppose to keep away Jews, evil spirits and ring worms by it's "ferocious hissing".  Its a secular version of the Polish Catholic ritual of the goose, which is believed to have pagan origins where they used as duck instead of a goose.