The Paris Attack Debate Thread

[Admiral Yi]

we're not in a court of law. we're on an internet forum. i've had an idea, and i've suggested it. it could be wrong, but i haven't seen anything that proves it wrong.

Nothing?  I just spent 6 pages explaining why broken lands doesn't explain Islamic terrorism.

[Jaron]

I have seen some conspiracy theories floating around already that the Paris attack was masterminded by the Mossad.

[katmai]

I have seen some conspiracy theories floating around already that the Paris attack was masterminded by the Mossad.

Theories you start don't count.

[Razgovory]

I had a theory once.  My theory was that Elephants evolved from eels.  I call it my "Trunk First" origin of the Elephant.  The Eel evolved an incredibly complex tail that eventually that formed the body of the elephant.  Over time tail developed legs and became ambulatory, but it need to keep the rest of the body in the water to breath.  Slowly the eyes, mouth and all other major organs migrated their way back to the tail becoming the modern elephant.  Wait, what were we talking about again?

[jimmy olsen]

Russia just hammered Raqqa with the biggest bombing raid since Vietnam.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/17/russia-pounds-isis-with-biggest-bomber-raid-in-decades.html

U mad Russia?

They just killed 200 Russian civilians, of course they are.

[Liep]

I like that people started calling them Daesh, sounds like the Danish word 'das' which means old fashion toilets (hole in the ground style).

[Syt]

Ramzan Kadyrov weighs in with a creative suggestion:

https://www.rt.com/politics/322448-drone-dive-chechen-leader-suggests/

Unmanned aircraft! Chechen leader suggests dropping terrorists from drones

While world leaders struggle with the problem of dealing with terrorists, Ramzan Kadyrov has come up with a direct solution: dropping captured terrorists from drones and publishing detailed accounts on when and how each extremist died.

"I suggest that if any terrorists are detained they should be suspended on unmanned aerial vehicles that attack the positions of the Iblis State and then drop them on their accomplices' heads," Kadyrov wrote in his Instagram account, which is his medium of choice for communication with the public.

READ MORE: Chechen leader claims Islamic State has no chances in the republic

The Chechen leader used the term 'Iblis State' to describe the terrorist group Islamic State (IS, previously known as ISIL and ISIS) because he, along with many Russian Muslims, considers that extremists insult their religion by using the word 'Muslim' in their name.

Kadyrov also added that in his opinion such executions must be organized without any trials and urged everyone to participate in the fight against terrorism in whichever way they can.

"I am confident that it is the duty of every Russian citizen and patriot of his Fatherland to report any information that could help to identify terrorists and disclose their places of residence," he wrote.

Kadyrov made his announcement on Tuesday, hours after Russian President Vladimir Putin told reporters that the Federal Security Service (FSB) had established that the A231 airliner in Egypt was downed by a bomb blast. Putin also pledged to find and punish those responsible for the attack and all who attempt to help them. FSB Director Aleksandr Bortnikov has announced earlier that Russia was offering a $50 million reward for information on those behind the terror attack on the A321.

Last week Ramzan Kadyrov made an address to Muslims across the world, calling on them to unite and destroy the Islamic State terrorist group. He also reiterated his point that the current Middle-East crisis was masterminded by the United States and other Western nations.

READ MORE: Kadyrov calls for Muslims worldwide to unite to defeat ISIS

Earlier this year Kadyrov expressed confidence that IS had been created "first of all against Russia" and warned of the threat that the jihadist group and the conflict in Syria pose to Russia's security. He also noted that the US and other Western nations "spawned" the current terrorist movement in the Mid East in order to distract public attention from numerous problems in the region and incite hatred towards Muslims all over the world.

[Martinus]

Sounds good.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Russia just hammered Raqqa with the biggest bombing raid since Vietnam.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/17/russia-pounds-isis-with-biggest-bomber-raid-in-decades.html

:blackjackboner:

[Duque de Bragança]

I like that people started calling them Daesh, sounds like the Danish word 'das' which means old fashion toilets (hole in the ground style).

Those are known as Toilettes à la turque (Turkish toilet) in French.

[Berkut]

He doesn't need to prove the causal connection - there is what's called a factual presumption (or the "talks like a duck and walks like a duck" principle).

All he needs to show is that Koran calls for violence and that those who commit violence are quoting Koran - this is sufficient in any court of law to create a presumption that there is a causal connection between the two. The burden of proof then shifts to the other side which claims that despite these facts, there is no connection between the two.

we're not in a court of law. we're on an internet forum. i've had an idea, and i've suggested it. it could be wrong, but i haven't seen anything that proves it wrong.

I don't think there is any possible evidence that could prove it wrong once you dismiss the personal, consistent, and overwhelming testimony of the human beings who are willing to tell you exactly why they do the things they do...

[Valmy]

Russia just hammered Raqqa with the biggest bombing raid since Vietnam.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/17/russia-pounds-isis-with-biggest-bomber-raid-in-decades.html

U mad Russia?

They just killed 200 Russian civilians, of course they are.

That was rhetorical Tim.

[The Minsky Moment]

i guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. i'm not sure i can prove my argument, and i don't think you can prove your argument.

I can make my prima facie case very easily.  The Koran does call for violence.  Muslims do a shitload of terrorism.

The Koran has been around for over 1500 years.  Yet Islamic terrorism is a very recent phenomenon.

[The Minsky Moment]

All he needs to show is that Koran calls for violence and that those who commit violence are quoting Koran - this is sufficient in any court of law to create a presumption that there is a causal connection between the two. The burden of proof then shifts to the other side which claims that despite these facts, there is no connection between the two.

[derspiess]

I wonder if they even had a military target in mind.  The Russians might just level the whole city and consider it a victory.  The Russians have never been shy of making a solitude and calling it peace.

That was their Grozny strategy IIRC.  Well, I guess that and throwing in untrained conscripts on the ground. 

Anyway the article said the bombing raid consisted of 25 planes.  Is that really the heaviest bombing since Vietnam?