Shootings and explosions in Paris

[garbon]

Blair is a good example - his strong religious beliefs were actually kept under wraps during his term in the office, because it would have been a huge detriment among voters.

Well, it is notoriously anti-Catholic country.

Not particularly.

Yeah, I mean it's not like the British starved out a million Catholic Irish or had a holiday were they burned the Pope in effigy.  Or maybe you just agree with people like Dawkins who say it's the "second most evil religion" so you don't see it as Anti-Catholicism.

Careful, you're close to pulling a Viper.

[Jacob]

Ok first of all the attack just occurred. I do not even know the names of any of the first responders who were involved in this thing at all. It is way too soon to make sweeping judgments on all of western civilization and its media and its treatment of this man. Further their only source for this story appears to be the Wall Street Journal, a pretty major newspaper. They claim that nobody cares but they know damn well lots of people care a great deal and would eagerly celebrate a first responder who acted courageously as they claim. That is why they tweeted this in the first place. The false story they invented for outrage fodder was that nobody cared because he was a Muslim and every media outlet hates Muslims and was trying to cover it up. Completely ridiculous.

Off all the things to get all worked up about, you pick this?

[garbon]

What is up with everyone telling everyone else if they are worked up, or angry, or hostile, all of the time lately? What ever happened to mild disdain?

[Malthus]

What is up with everyone telling everyone else if they are worked up, or angry, or hostile, all of the time lately? What ever happened to mild disdain?

Mild distain is *your* schtick. 

Personally, I'm worked up, angry and hostile that you do it!

[Malthus]

I know the Americans meant well with the whole praying thing so I don't get the outcry BUT you do seem unable to understand the European viewpoint:

In Europe unless you are seriously religious, Christianity is A religion. So it seems obvious that when a religiously motivated massacre happens, you don't necessarily want to mention praying.

Now obviously Americans are more accustomed to the thought/general social consensus of Christianity being THE religion, so this doesn't compute for them.

It doesn't seem at all obvious to me.  You have to be a retard to think all religious people are evil.  If the Dalai Lama or the Pope showed up in Paris to demonstrate support should people pelt them with rocks or run in terror?  That would be psychotic.  But that's exactly the kind of reaction these various analogies are suggesting.

Well, I don't know about the Pope, but here's what the Dalai Lama had to say about praying for Paris:

We cannot solve this problem only through prayers. I am a Buddhist and I believe in praying. But humans have created this problem, and now we are asking God to solve it. It is illogical. God would say, solve it yourself because you created it in the first place.

We need a systematic approach to foster humanistic values, of oneness and harmony. If we start doing it now, there is hope that this century will be different from the previous one. It is in everybody's interest. So let us work for peace within our families and society, and not expect help from God, Buddha or the governments.

If this is in response to the American kerfuffle, it is pretty tone deaf on the part of the Dalai Lama.

When Americans say something like "you are in our prayers" or "we are praying for you" in response to a tragedy, they do not mean that they are literally asking God to come down from heaven to solve your problems - any more than someone saying "bless you" after a sneeze literally thinks that you require a blessing because you sneezed.

All it means, basically, is that "you have our sympathies" as expressed by someone who takes religious idiom for granted. 

[Razgovory]

Careful, you're close to pulling a Viper.

Not even close.  This is just Tyr's normal nonsense when talking about religions.  Like how nice it is that the indigenous beliefs of the Japanese, Buddhism, is persevered.  A great deal of Britain's identity is based around opposition to Catholics.  First as rebellion by a murderous tyrant, then as a part of Protestantism, and finally as an element of modern secularism.  In modern Britain it comes from both left and right and is deeply ingrained in the British character.  It's not as bad as was during the Troubles but it is very telling that the Prime Minister had to hide his religion to be elected.

[Jacob]

What is up with everyone telling everyone else if they are worked up, or angry, or hostile, all of the time lately? What ever happened to mild disdain?

Do you think Valmy's statement is best described as showing "mild disdain"? I think "worked up" is more accurate. Even if we leave it at "picking out as being worth noting" it still strikes me as a somewhat odd choice to focus your attention on.

[mongers]

Careful, you're close to pulling a Viper.

Not even close.  This is just Tyr's normal nonsense when talking about religions.  Like how nice it is that the indigenous beliefs of the Japanese, Buddhism, is persevered.  A great deal of Britain's identity is based around opposition to Catholics.  First as rebellion by a murderous tyrant, then as a part of Protestantism, and finally as an element of modern secularism. In modern Britain it comes from both left and right and is deeply ingrained in the British character. It's not as bad as was during the Troubles but it is very telling that the Prime Minister had to hide his religion to be elected.

Raz, you're talking out of your arse.

[mongers]

Watched an impressive interview with Romain Ranouil, who lives above the La Belle Equipe restaurant and is a waiter in the nextdoor bar/restaurant, very eloquent testimony of what confronted him when he came downstairs.

[jimmy olsen]

When Americans say something like "you are in our prayers" or "we are praying for you" in response to a tragedy, they do not mean that they are literally asking God to come down from heaven to solve your problems - any more than someone saying "bless you" after a sneeze literally thinks that you require a blessing because you sneezed.

All it means, basically, is that "you have our sympathies" as expressed by someone who takes religious idiom for granted.

I really don't think one and two are really comparable. I know if I say "I'm praying for you" due to some tragedy, I will literally pray for them. I don't think I am unusual in that.

[Eddie Teach]

Careful, you're close to pulling a Viper.

Not even close.  This is just Tyr's normal nonsense when talking about religions.  Like how nice it is that the indigenous beliefs of the Japanese, Buddhism, is persevered.  A great deal of Britain's identity is based around opposition to Catholics.  First as rebellion by a murderous tyrant, then as a part of Protestantism, and finally as an element of modern secularism. In modern Britain it comes from both left and right and is deeply ingrained in the British character. It's not as bad as was during the Troubles but it is very telling that the Prime Minister had to hide his religion to be elected.

Raz, you're talking out of your arse.

Is that where his persecution complex resides?

[Valmy]

Off all the things to get all worked up about, you pick this?

I have been stating my disdain for this kind of rabble rousing for years so is it a surprise I am not happy about it? So yes one of my largest pet peeves in the world irritates me.

[Valmy]

When Americans say something like "you are in our prayers" or "we are praying for you" in response to a tragedy, they do not mean that they are literally asking God to come down from heaven to solve your problems - any more than someone saying "bless you" after a sneeze literally thinks that you require a blessing because you sneezed.

All it means, basically, is that "you have our sympathies" as expressed by someone who takes religious idiom for granted.

I really don't think one and two are really comparable. I know if I say "I'm praying for you" due to some tragedy, I will literally pray for them. I don't think I am unusual in that.

I do. Very few people have a regular prayer practice. I do but it is fairly structured and I don't, as a general principle, list out things by name.

[viper37]

Major operation in St-Denis (Paris suburb) with a shootout.  One officer injured, apparently.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34853657

French link with more details:
http://www.lapresse.ca/international/dossiers/attaques-a-paris/201511/17/01-4922055-fusillade-a-saint-denis-lors-dune-operation-policiere.php

- major shootout ongoing since 22h30 Montreal hour (4h30 Paris time)
- 10km to the north of Paris
- armed men escaping through the roof
- general alert went out to triple police force in the area
https://twitter.com/hashtag/SaintDenis?src=hash

edit:
2 dead, can't access my link for more info, so fuck it for tonight.

[jimmy olsen]

Tranlsated with google


https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lapresse.ca%2Finternational%2Fdossiers%2Fattaques-a-paris%2F201511%2F17%2F01-4922055-operation-policiere-a-saint-denis-deux-morts.php&edit-text=&act=url

Two men targeted by the French SWAT forces were killed early Wednesday morning, in Saint-Denis, north of Paris, during a major police operation, reports Le Monde.

A third man could also have been killed. This operation is in full swing since half past one ET would be linked to the manhunt for the perpetrators of attacks in Paris, several French media reported.

The French media reported in the evening on Tuesday that two armed men had barricaded themselves in an apartment instead of the Republic, two kilometers from the Stade de France. It is not known if they were among the victims. At least one policeman was injured in the shooting.

The French elite police unit exchange gunfire since 4:30 [22h30, Montreal time] with armed men in the area of ​​the Place Jean Jaurès, about ten kilometers from the center of the capital.

A general alert law enforcement was launched to triple the police force, as iTV. The police reinforcements arrive massively at the moment.

According to the channel France Info, the police operation could be searched gone wrong. It could also be a police operation could be the surviving perpetrators and their accomplices or persons targeted

On Twitter, netizens have aired on numerous videos where you can hear the exchange of gunfire.

Since last Friday attacks that killed 129 victims, France is trying by all means to the collar of the perpetrators of the attack on the run. There would be at least one, possibly two.

More details to come.