Shootings and explosions in Paris

[Eddie Teach]

I guess the President could say 'America! Fuck yeah!'

Just so long as he does it in tune.

[crazy canuck]

Sure but you are not the head of a country reflecting the majority view of the country.  Your president is and does.

I don't think those terms actually reflect a deep religious sentiment though. I just think that is what we say. Like we don't say 'Long Live the United States' that would be weird. I guess the President could say 'America! Fuck yeah!'

I agree there is a degree of habit to it.  But the US is one of the few nations in the Western world one could say it wasn't awkward to say it. That reflects the cultural norms of your country being strongly influenced by Christianity and continuing to be influenced by that belief.

[grumbler]

While that may be true in some circumstances it is entirely inaccurate for this case.  You are very much in the minority in your country on this issue.  The generalization regarding the religious beliefs of Americans is accurate.  You are making the same mistake BB made.  Just because 100% of the people in the US are not Christian does not mean Christianity is not the dominant religion in the US. You objected to a comment that Americans are more religious than Europeans.  When talking about those populations the comment is accurate.  You are an outlier.

No, the statement that "Europeans are less religious than Americans" is untrue, as I have proven.  QED

[crazy canuck]

While that may be true in some circumstances it is entirely inaccurate for this case.  You are very much in the minority in your country on this issue.  The generalization regarding the religious beliefs of Americans is accurate.  You are making the same mistake BB made.  Just because 100% of the people in the US are not Christian does not mean Christianity is not the dominant religion in the US. You objected to a comment that Americans are more religious than Europeans.  When talking about those populations the comment is accurate.  You are an outlier.

No, the statement that "Europeans are less religious than Americans" is untrue, as I have proven.  QED

Maybe to yourself.  But I am having a more interesting conversation with others who do not insist that they alone represent Americans.

[mongers]

Not sure how kosher this is, but it purports to be the shield used by French police when they entered the concert hall:

This is the bulletproof shield police used to get into the Bataclan theatre. #Parisattacks

[Oexmelin]

seems to be kosher. the source is iTélé. http://www.itele.fr/france/video/bataclan-27-impacts-sur-le-bouclier-qui-a-protege-la-bri-143761

[Razgovory]

Blair is a good example - his strong religious beliefs were actually kept under wraps during his term in the office, because it would have been a huge detriment among voters.

Well, it is notoriously anti-Catholic country.

[mongers]

seems to be kosher. the source is iTélé. http://www.itele.fr/france/video/bataclan-27-impacts-sur-le-bouclier-qui-a-protege-la-bri-143761

Oh thanks for that Oex, the only 'sources' I found were english social media; nice to hear from you. 

[Archy]

IMHO this religiousness is baked in,  in the English language. Even the English bless you when you sneeze 

[Josquius]

Blair is a good example - his strong religious beliefs were actually kept under wraps during his term in the office, because it would have been a huge detriment among voters.

Well, it is notoriously anti-Catholic country.

Not particularly.

[celedhring]

I hope you will allow me some levity, but Spain's public broadcaster mixed up Al-Qaeda with the Rebel Alliance:



https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/31F8D8AD951278194563139735552_439bfebcfba.0.2.16672094842674435322.mp4?versionId=TNbWwlzRQpzTydEKpEkUGUvtJNwpZLCr

[Syt]

Almost as good as the Star Trek Seal Team Six logo a few years ago on German TV.

[jimmy olsen]

Absolutely incredible story

Video within
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11999580/Paris-terror-Hero-stranger-reveals-how-he-rescued-pregnant-woman-as-she-clung-for-life.html

Paris terror: Hero stranger reveals how he rescued pregnant woman as she clung for life

Woman is "safe and sound" after being dragged through window after her desperate struggle to hang on ledge was broadcast around the world


By David Chazan, Patrick Sawer, in Paris, and Tom Morgan

8:32PM GMT 16 Nov 2015

She was the desperate young woman whose screams while clinging to an open window became the iconic footage of Paris's night of terror.

"Help, help, I'm pregnant, catch me if I fall," she was heard shouting on blurry video footage, showing her clinging to the upstairs window of the Bataclan venue - where gunmen were at that moment cold-bloodedly shooting dead 89 of her fellow concert goers.

Watching her plight, as others fled in panic through the streets beneath her, people around the world wondered if she had survived after being dragged back into the carnage.

Now it can be revealed that she - and her unborn baby - are alive and well thanks to the heroic intervention of a stranger.

She sent a message of thanks to her rescuer as he described how they had both cheated death.

The woman was just moments from losing her grip when Sébastien, who declined to disclose his surname, heard her cries.

"There were two windows in front of me," he said. "She was dangling from one of them, begging people below for help if she jumped. It was chaos down there as well. I climbed out through the other window and held on to an air vent 15 metres from the ground. I held on for five minutes and then the pregnant woman, who couldn't cling to the window-sill any longer, asked me to help her get back inside."

Amid a torrent of gunfire, Sébastien went back inside and pulled the woman back through the window before the pair were immediately separated.

Sebastian told La Province: "She was begging people down below if they would catch her if she jumped. But it was chaos down there. We were 15 metres above the ground. I don't know where she went afterwards."

They were reunited on Monday with messages of thanks she sent him via a friend.

Frans /A\ Torreele @__F_A_T__

On a retrouvé l'homme qui a aidé mon amie à se hisser de la fenêtre du Bataclan. La suite de l'histoire leur appartient. Merci. #bataclan
8:25 PM - 16 Nov 2015

The dramatic rescue was videoed by a journalist on the newspaper Le Monde, Daniel Psenny, who lives opposite the Bataclan, and watched four masked militants armed with AK-47s march into the rock concert where more than 1,000 people were watching rock band Eagles of Death Metal perform.

The young woman's friend, Frans Torreele, said both she and her unborn baby are "safe and sound". "She needs to rest and doesn't want to say anything else about what happened for now," Mr Torreele told The Telegraph.

Sébastien told how he went back out and clung from the air vent above the windows after helping the woman inside.

"It wasn't the best hiding-place," he said. "Five minutes later, I felt the barrel of a Kalashnikov against my leg. One of the terrorists said: 'Come down from there! Come inside and lie down on the floor!'"

He described how the gunmen fired at people from the balcony of the Bataclan, which was originally designed as a theatre.

"We heard people screaming as if they were being tortured.

"The terrorists said to us: 'Do you hear the cries, the suffering? It's to make you feel the fear that people have to suffer every day in Syria. It's war! And it's only the beginning. We'll massacre innocents. We want you to repeat that to those around you'."

Speaking to La Provence newspaper in the south of France, Sébastien told how the gunmen were telling hostages to phone French TV channels.

He said: "They wanted to speak to journalists. But we didn't get through to anyone. At one point, they asked me for a light and they wanted to know if money was important to me.

"They took out a wad of 50-euro notes and I had to burn them. They spoke French to each other."

He claimed the terrorists were not equipped to blow up the venue - despite their threats.

Sébastien added: "They ordered us to say they had suicide belts and if the police came in, they would blow everything up. But it was a lie. I saw only Kalashnikovs, one of which was stuck together with black tape, and a bag with ammunition.

"They didn't seem very organised. They spoke to a negotiator on a hostage's mobile. They had only one demand: that the security forces withdraw.

"They threatened to kill one of us every five minutes and to throw the bodies out of the window. The negotiator got them to agree to let firemen in to take out the injured. Then we waited. Those were the longest minutes of my life.

"I went from hope to feeling resigned to death. I closed my eyes so I couldn't see the Kalashnikov pointed at me. The terrorists had put two hostages as human shields near the doors. The Raid (elite French police unit) managed to shoot past them without hitting them.

"Then they smashed the door in with a battering ram and threw a stun grenade. When I saw a second stun grenade land near my feet, I knew it was time to flee.

"I ran, the grenade exploded and the blast propelled me under the battering ram. All the Raid members went over the top. I was trampled but it was the happiest pain of my life. I was protected. I was alive."

Sébastien's account comes after Mr Torreele posted a message on Twitter on Sunday evening to trace her rescuer.

It was retweeted more than 1,800 times before Sébastien's brother responded by email.

https://twitter.com/__F_A_T__/status/666020913297678336?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Mr Torreele added: "She wanted to thank everyone who helped her, especially the man who gave her a hand and helped her climb back up," he said.

He said she was saved by "a series of small gestures, small kindnesses, and at that time of total madness, those tiny gestures accomplished great things. You can hardly imagine how much an outstretched hand, a hand on the shoulder, helped to save people. These people need to thank each other, to hug each other."

[Duque de Bragança]

Charlie Hebdo front cover this week was made with garbonites in mind:



"They've got the weapons
Fuck them
We've got champagne !"

[Duque de Bragança]

Based on the first name I would guess that the security guard was also a Muslim. It's telling how the lines of conflict in French society really are. I am sure more Muslims are with us than against us.

Well, the PC crowd made of it a very nice story by reading too much into it but we don't know if it's true.



Even lemonde.fr fact-checkers, centre-left at best, are not that convinced and advise caution.

Cette internaute a sans doute repris l'information dans le seul journal qui a mentionné Zouheir, le Wall Street Journal, quotidien financier très sérieux. Mais elle a lu très vite : le quotidien cite le témoignage d'un agent de sécurité prénommé Zouheir, qui explique qu'il se trouvait dans le tunnel d'entrée dans le stade et qu'il a entendu, de la bouche de ses collègues, qu'un homme rejeté par la sécurité à l'entrée (le match avait alors commencé depuis quinze minutes), se serait ensuite fait sauter.

Le Zouheir du Wall Street Journal n'a donc pas empêché l'homme d'entrer, ce sont d'autres agents qui l'ont fait. Dont certains étaient peut-être musulmans, mais nous n'en savons rien pour le moment.

En outre, cette version donnée par le journal américain n'est pas confirmée par les autorités françaises, précise Le Parisien. L'Equipe assure d'ailleurs que les deux kamikazes seraient arrivés après le début du match, sans billet qui leur aurait permis d'entrer

Executive Summary

The well-meaning web surfer read too much into the WSJ report. The WSJ states that Zouheir was in the tunnel leading to the pitch and heard from a colleague that a man had beeb rejected by the security, using his suicide vest shortly afterwards.
So the Zouheir described by the WSJ did not prevent the man from entering, other stewards did it. Maybe some of them were muslim, but we don't know anything about it yet.
The WSJ version is not confirmed by French authorities, according to le Parisien. L'Équipe, daily sports newspaper, further states that the two suicide bombers were late and had no ticket to enter.