So, what's the deal with Richard Glossip?

[Martinus]

Is this the travesty of justice many media outlets make it to be, or is this more nuanced?

[Barrister]

Is this the travesty of justice many media outlets make it to be, or is this more nuanced?

Here's a good summary:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/09/richard-glossip-and-the-death-penalty/408217/

My very quick take: convictions based on bought testimony are pretty dubious, but the "new evidence" being presented has no merit.  The conviction must either stand or fall on its own.

[Martinus]

Is this the travesty of justice many media outlets make it to be, or is this more nuanced?

Here's a good summary:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/09/richard-glossip-and-the-death-penalty/408217/

My very quick take: convictions based on bought testimony are pretty dubious, but the "new evidence" being presented has no merit.  The conviction must either stand or fall on its own.

So you are fine with killing an innocent man because of procedural reasons? Wow.

[Barrister]

Is this the travesty of justice many media outlets make it to be, or is this more nuanced?

Here's a good summary:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/09/richard-glossip-and-the-death-penalty/408217/

My very quick take: convictions based on bought testimony are pretty dubious, but the "new evidence" being presented has no merit.  The conviction must either stand or fall on its own.

So you are fine with killing an innocent man because of procedural reasons? Wow.

And how exactly did you get that from what I said?

I criticized the new evidence because it's based on cell mates recalling the witness said he had lied.  They're discussing events that took places 9 and 18 years ago.  It's not credible or reliable.

The conviction either stands or falls on its own, and I offered no opinion which way it should go.  In fact I said such convictions are "pretty dubious".

[DGuller]

If you're going to put off executions in US because of dubious convictions, you may as well just outlaw death penalty altogether.

[Fireblade]

Not only is he probably innocent, but Oklahoma is probably going to fuck up the execution and cause him to die slowly and painfully.

[viper37]

And how exactly did you get that from what I said?

Let's face it: you are a monster.
Taking time to explain the legal procedure calmy is one thing, but you went totally overboard when you did not approve of Martinus' stance.  There, you are beyond redemption.

[Valmy]

Sadly I cannot help but feel a bit of relief it is not Texas looking horrible for once.

But yes more evidence the death penalty, while not too bad in theory, is pretty shit in reality.

[Valmy]

And how exactly did you get that from what I said?

Let's face it: you are a monster.
Taking time to explain the legal procedure calmy is one thing, but you went totally overboard when you did not approve of Martinus' stance.  There, you are beyond redemption.

Yeah I did get a kick out of that.

Marty: Is it as bad as it looks? Somebody provide me with a more nuanced view.

BB: Provides a nuanced view.

Marty: YOU HAVE A NUANCED VIEW OF THIS OUTRAGE?!!!  MONSTER!

[Eddie Teach]

Sadly I cannot help but feel a bit of relief it is not Texas looking horrible for once.

Just your mom's people.

[DGuller]

I said this before, but I think being against death penalty because of innocence concerns is badly missing the point.  Let's say Glossip is innocent, which given Oklahoma's penchant for sending innocent people to the death row is likely, would it be much less of a tragedy if he were sent to prison for life on exactly the same evidence?  No one would think about him in that case, so maybe it will be easier on the rest of society to not witness this likely miscarriage of justice, but would it be much different for him?  Either way you have your life taken away from you.

[Martinus]

And how exactly did you get that from what I said?

Let's face it: you are a monster.
Taking time to explain the legal procedure calmy is one thing, but you went totally overboard when you did not approve of Martinus' stance.  There, you are beyond redemption.

Yeah I did get a kick out of that.

Marty: Is it as bad as it looks? Somebody provide me with a more nuanced view.

BB: Provides a nuanced view.

Marty: YOU HAVE A NUANCED VIEW OF THIS OUTRAGE?!!!  MONSTER!

The expected response was: Yes, this is as bad as it looks. God damn Amerikkka.

[Hamilcar]

Not only is he probably innocent, but Oklahoma is probably going to fuck up the execution and cause him to die slowly and painfully.

Fireblade!

[Razgovory]

I said this before, but I think being against death penalty because of innocence concerns is badly missing the point.  Let's say Glossip is innocent, which given Oklahoma's penchant for sending innocent people to the death row is likely, would it be much less of a tragedy if he were sent to prison for life on exactly the same evidence?  No one would think about him in that case, so maybe it will be easier on the rest of society to not witness this likely miscarriage of justice, but would it be much different for him?  Either way you have your life taken away from you.

So you are suggesting that the being in jail is the equivalent of being dead?

[DGuller]

I said this before, but I think being against death penalty because of innocence concerns is badly missing the point.  Let's say Glossip is innocent, which given Oklahoma's penchant for sending innocent people to the death row is likely, would it be much less of a tragedy if he were sent to prison for life on exactly the same evidence?  No one would think about him in that case, so maybe it will be easier on the rest of society to not witness this likely miscarriage of justice, but would it be much different for him?  Either way you have your life taken away from you.

So you are suggesting that the being in jail is the equivalent of being dead?

Being in prison for life without any realistic chance of getting out is not substantially different from being in prison for 15 years and then being put to death, as far as the severity of miscarriage of justice is concerned.  If you oppose death penalty because innocent people may be executed, you're essentially saying "I can't be sure that he's guilty, let's send him to prison for life".