sub-Roman Britain, the Romano-British, and the Welsh

[Caliga]

I don't know the details but the English claimed the same damn thing about being descended from pure Germanic stock that 100% ethnically cleansed the Britons out of England, and thus unconquered and mighty (except by the Normans and Vikings who were also 100% Germanically pure) and well LOL.

Wasn't there some recent DNA testing conducted that suggested that this most definitely was NOT the case, and that modern English ancestry has a higher percentage of pre-Germanic ancestry than Germanic, with only a few regional variations where that wasn't true?  I thought I read that in a BBC article.

edit:  Maybe it was this: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/18/genetic-study-30-percent-white-british-dna-german-ancestry

[The Brain]

I thought Gaulish had survived in France until even after the Frankish conquest?  I think I remember reading something about that when I read Martin of Tours in college, some passage about how there were still some weird people speaking Gaulish in hick parts of France.

Goulash is more Hungarian.

[viper37]

the last remaint of Rome in the West is ... the "Roman" Catholic Church. 

Well, it would fit.
- Persecutions against those who do not submit to the authority of the Emperor / Pope.
- Preach for Pax while doing wars of territorial conquests vs Preach for peace while doing wars of religious conqests (and territorial too, for the benefits of Catholic vassals)
- Tolerance of pedophilia for some higher ranking members
- Justification of slavery by the power of the Empire / by the will of God
- use or latin as official language

I see a lot of similarities here!

[viper37]

I thought Gaulish had survived in France until even after the Frankish conquest?

Gaulish was supplanted by Vulgar Latin[7] and various Germanic languages from around the 5th century AD onwards.
From Wikipedia.

[Malthus]

the last remaint of Rome in the West is ... the "Roman" Catholic Church. 

Well, it would fit.
- Persecutions against those who do not submit to the authority of the Emperor / Pope.
- Preach for Pax while doing wars of territorial conquests vs Preach for peace while doing wars of religious conqests (and territorial too, for the benefits of Catholic vassals)
- Tolerance of pedophilia for some higher ranking members
- Justification of slavery by the power of the Empire / by the will of God
- use or latin as official language

I see a lot of similarities here!

'What has the Church ever done for us?'

[Caliga]

If I remember correctly St. Augustine had problems getting along with the 'native' Christian Bishops once he set up his mission in Canterbury, because they didn't agree with the Roman Catholic dating of Easter, and he didn't like the way they cut their hair (seriously  ).  So it seems that a century or so of being cut off from Rome by the Anglo-Saxons caused the Roman-British Church to evolve in different directions.  IIRC he got along better with the Anglo-Saxons and it was easier to convert them from Germanic paganism than to get the already-Christian Romano-British to fall in line.

[Valmy]

I don't know the details but the English claimed the same damn thing about being descended from pure Germanic stock that 100% ethnically cleansed the Britons out of England, and thus unconquered and mighty (except by the Normans and Vikings who were also 100% Germanically pure) and well LOL.

Wasn't there some recent DNA testing conducted that suggested that this most definitely was NOT the case, and that modern English ancestry has a higher percentage of pre-Germanic ancestry than Germanic, with only a few regional variations where that wasn't true?  I thought I read that in a BBC article.

edit:  Maybe it was this: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/18/genetic-study-30-percent-white-british-dna-german-ancestry

Yes. It was obviously a nationalist fantasy story. But those traditions die hard.

[Valmy]

the last remaint of Rome in the West is ... the "Roman" Catholic Church. 

Well, it would fit.
- Persecutions against those who do not submit to the authority of the Emperor / Pope.
- Preach for Pax while doing wars of territorial conquests vs Preach for peace while doing wars of religious conqests (and territorial too, for the benefits of Catholic vassals)
- Tolerance of pedophilia for some higher ranking members
- Justification of slavery by the power of the Empire / by the will of God
- use or latin as official language

I see a lot of similarities here!

Indeed. For good reason. Though the Empire was not doing any wars of territorial conquests during the time it was Catholic

[Caliga]

Yes. It was obviously a nationalist fantasy story. But those traditions die hard.

I am assuming what happened with the Anglo-Saxons is that they, much like the later Vikings and, well, many other conqering peoples, were more than happy to pound the shit out of local chicks they 'acquired' in raiding/settling and that's why they rather quickly created a nice new race the English.

[Valmy]

Yes. It was obviously a nationalist fantasy story. But those traditions die hard.

I am assuming what happened with the Anglo-Saxons is that they, much like the later Vikings and, well, many other conqering peoples, were more than happy to pound the shit out of local chicks they 'acquired' in raiding/settling and that's why they rather quickly created a nice new race the English.

Well sure chicks were pounded. But also locals assimilated into the culture while not being pounded at all. The process of Anglo-Saxon England took place over a long period of time.

[Caliga]

But also locals assimilated into the culture while not being pounded at all. The process of Anglo-Saxon England took place over a long period of time.

As in, they started speaking Old English (or I guess Angle, Saxon, or Jute maybe?), writing in runes, and converting to Germanic paganism?   Ok well maybe not the second item as most people could not read and write anyway.

[Valmy]

But also locals assimilated into the culture while not being pounded at all. The process of Anglo-Saxon England took place over a long period of time.

As in, they started speaking Old English (or I guess Angle, Saxon, or Jute maybe?), writing in runes, and converting to Germanic paganism?   Ok well maybe not the second item as most people could not read and write anyway.

Basically. God, or Wotan, was clearly on their side.

[Malthus]

If I remember correctly St. Augustine had problems getting along with the 'native' Christian Bishops once he set up his mission in Canterbury, because they didn't agree with the Roman Catholic dating of Easter, and he didn't like the way they cut their hair (seriously  ).  So it seems that a century or so of being cut off from Rome by the Anglo-Saxons caused the Roman-British Church to evolve in different directions.  IIRC he got along better with the Anglo-Saxons and it was easier to convert them from Germanic paganism than to get the already-Christian Romano-British to fall in line.

It is pretty funny/ironic reading Anglo-Saxons like The Venerable Bede - he hates the shit out of the already-existing Romano-British Christians, and is of the opinion his (totally pagan) ancestors were infinitely superior ... while writing as a Christian monk. 

I guess the way to rationalize this is that the existing Christians were "degenerates", so not 'really' Christians at all. The ORIGINAL "not true Scotsmen". 

[Caliga]

@ Valmy While I have no evidence to contradict what you said I somehow find it hard to believe they would switch languages willingly.  I can maybe go along with the religion part as I don't know to what extent the peasantry of Britain was really Christian at that point anyway.  Even if the upper classes were thoroughly Christianized, they were more likely to have had the means to have fled to safety in Wales/the Old North/Cornwall.

[The Brain]

Enter the Wotan.