The Off Topic Topic

[Sheilbh]

Exactly - add into the material challenges of transmitting news, especially in wartime with restrictions of various censorship regimes. And as you say to HVC's point it's not necessarily speed over accuracy but there's a far harder deadline for print. Admittedly the Times gets it better than the tabloids (and both get it better than the Daily Worker) but that's hardly a surprise Also related to that is that there were evening editions instead of just refreshing.

As I say looking at archive sites I'm amazed at the volume of news that was still being produced or that there was a wire reporter for British papers in Helsinki in 1939. Obviously there was false reporting - in that era and the Soviets immediately brings Walter Duranty to mind - but I think it's pretty good to be honest.

In a way I think the immediacy of information now maybe gives a false sense of security or transparency of information. If you want to wait for actual knowledge then you'll need the second draft of history not the first - and even that will be revised 30 years later with further research

[Syt]

I was looking for newspapers on archive.org and saw a Hong Kong paper covering the news in a similar way on the 1st. And yes, they had an early, late and final edition, i.e. three print runs per day (each about 12 pages).

[Tamas]

Still if the "surrender" news came just before they went to print they could had put a question mark at the end of the headline news but they didn't because as HVC wrote they went for the "clickbait"

[Syt]

Sure, they need to sell copies, but I'm also not sure if there was much incentive needed in those times, during time of war. And obviously any kind of reporting during rapid developments can be fraught with inaccuracies and false assumptions. We've seen it during the Russian invasion of Ukraine most recently where determining what happens when and where, esp. in the early stages could be all over the place (like Russian war planning ); I'd argue we are having the benefit of being able to verify more sources against each other, and faster. A lot of people don't do that, but the option is there.

[garbon]

In a way I think the immediacy of information now maybe gives a false sense of security or transparency of information. If you want to wait for actual knowledge then you'll need the second draft of history not the first - and even that will be revised 30 years later with further research

Do we think that? I think we see all the time that initial reporting is inaccurate and even when the narrative coalesces we are left with open questions.

I'm not sure when actual knowledge arrives given it will always continue to be revised.

[Tamas]

Sure, they need to sell copies, but I'm also not sure if there was much incentive needed in those times, during time of war. And obviously any kind of reporting during rapid developments can be fraught with inaccuracies and false assumptions. We've seen it during the Russian invasion of Ukraine most recently where determining what happens when and where, esp. in the early stages could be all over the place (like Russian war planning ); I'd argue we are having the benefit of being able to verify more sources against each other, and faster. A lot of people don't do that, but the option is there.

I disagree about incentives. The incentive was competition.

[crazy canuck]

Still if the "surrender" news came just before they went to print they could had put a question mark at the end of the headline news but they didn't because as HVC wrote they went for the "clickbait"

By that logic all headlines should have question marks. All reporting is based on what is known at the time the report is published.

[Tamas]

Still if the "surrender" news came just before they went to print they could had put a question mark at the end of the headline news but they didn't because as HVC wrote they went for the "clickbait"

By that logic all headlines should have question marks. All reporting is based on what is known at the time the report is published.

If you are published weekly and a major news item JUST lands before you go to print perhaps indicate that fact? But no, a grabbing headline was just as important back then as it is now. That's my point. Grab the attention, clarify/disclaimer later. Just as nowadays. Same standards.

[Jacob]

Tamas, you ought to write their editor a letter.

[Josquius]

It's interesting to think how papers would have worked in earlier times. Pre radio, pre telegram....
Something happened in the US!... Last week.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

It's interesting to think how papers would have worked in earlier times. Pre radio, pre telegram....
Something happened in the US!... Last week.

Aren't the oldest newspapers older than all these technologies? So we should be able to find out, at least to some extent

[Oexmelin]

Yes. They wrote and received letters, and had postal services. And yes, they had dated news, depending on the length of travel.

[crazy canuck]

Still if the "surrender" news came just before they went to print they could had put a question mark at the end of the headline news but they didn't because as HVC wrote they went for the "clickbait"

By that logic all headlines should have question marks. All reporting is based on what is known at the time the report is published.

If you are published weekly and a major news item JUST lands before you go to print perhaps indicate that fact? But no, a grabbing headline was just as important back then as it is now. That's my point. Grab the attention, clarify/disclaimer later. Just as nowadays. Same standards.

I can tell that you came of age during the time when communications were instantaneous.

When I began practising law, we still relied on something called the postal acceptance rule.  I won't get into the details of what the rule was, but suffice it to say that it was necessary because communications were delayed by the time it took the post office to deliver a letter.

And that was in the early 90s. Think about how much more inefficient communications were during the time you are being critical of.

[Syt]

Yes. They wrote and received letters, and had postal services. And yes, they had dated news, depending on the length of travel.

Yep, there is (was?) a website that archived Austrian newspapers, with some from the 1700s (IIRC) and early 1800s. Lots of week old (or older) news in those.

[Syt]

When I began practising law, we still relied on something called the postal acceptance rule.  I won't get into the details of what the rule was, but suffice it to say that it was necessary because communications were delayed by the time it took the post office to deliver a letter.

And that was in the early 90s. Think about how much more inefficient communications were during the time you are being critical of.

Studied public administration in the late 90s. The accepted legal fiction was that an official letter (unless sent as registered mail with return card) was considered delivered after three working days (which was relevant for triggering deadlines, like how long does a citizen have to register his objection to a letter). Many written exams liked playing around with the mailing dates of administrative letters and citizen responses (though it was usually the smallest part of the exams; the exams were then focused on the relevant area - social security law, environmental law, etc. though the most popular - at least in administrative procedural law - was examining public liability following damages caused by a private third party acting on behalf of the public entity, e.g. a towing company, or a building/repair firm ).