The Off Topic Topic

[Sheilbh]

I mean...they're not. Not all bad things have to be the same bad thing. Trots are different than fascists.

A party led by a woman who basically locked herself away for a week when the wall fell is different than a party with people saying the SS weren't all bad.

[Zanza]

These parties have some common positions (anti-Western/pro-Putin, anti-immigration), but the BSW is very hard to define as they were recently founded and very focused on their leader. The AfD is a straight fascist party in these two states.

The party leader of the BSW talks mainly about foreign policy, which is of course not the competence of state governments.

[Josquius]

So a victory for terrorism in Germany.

[Sheilbh]

I think this is in line with expectations before (the question was how much would the anti-democratic left and right win) and don't think the recent stabbing had much of an impact - though I could be wrong.

Edit: And goes without saying that 60% for those parties is alarming.

Edit: Also maybe for the young people thread but this is similar to what we see in France and Italy where the core vote of the traditional parties are aging, while they have least support among the young who are, instead, voting for the anti-establishment/anti-system parties:


Still a really interesting pattern compared to the UK where age is very much a left/right dividing line (and I think similar in the US). Which at least means that we need to be cautious of "left-wing young people will save politics" narratives but also while the are similarities the analysis to explain Brexit and Trump doesn't really work in continental Europe where this n shaped support is common for the far-right and the young, in particular, are voting for non-traditional parties (and, perhaps, never really worked in the US or UK either but made narrative sense). (I've mentioned before but it's perhaps a particularly acute comparison in Germany - is it basically like the 80s Greens breakthrough now the Greens are regular coalition partners? )

[Razgovory]

I mean...they're not. Not all bad things have to be the same bad thing. Trots are different than fascists.

A party led by a woman who basically locked herself away for a week when the wall fell is different than a party with people saying the SS weren't all bad.

I wonder anymore.  If a certain mustachioed man was reborn in darker skin, set up a Palestinian Workers party, used vague socialist language, was a secularist, went on about the important connection between the indigenous people and their land, and most importantly was militantly against the Zionists and the Americans do you think they would support him?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

They double fry them, and they're nice and crunchy without being greasy.

You always double fry (french) fries.  Else you're doing it wrong. Trust the guy living in 'frieten'-country. 

[Norgy]

They double fry them, and they're nice and crunchy without being greasy.

You always double fry (french) fries.  Else you're doing it wrong. Trust the guy living in 'frieten'-country. 

I must say I am quite taken by mussels and fries.    Thank you, Belgium!

[Josquius]

They double fry them, and they're nice and crunchy without being greasy.

You always double fry (french) fries.  Else you're doing it wrong. Trust the guy living in 'frieten'-country. 

I must say I am quite taken by mussels and fries.    Thank you, Belgium!

Its nice but I feel like too much of a monster eating it. You need so so many creatures to get a meal.

[Norgy]

More mussels from Brussels than van Damme. 

[Syt]

I will say that Brussels airport (well, in 2008, when we met for the Languish meet) had the best ever Coke machine.

[Norgy]

Talk about taking the piss.

[Razgovory]

[Norgy]

Still a really interesting pattern compared to the UK where age is very much a left/right dividing line (and I think similar in the US). Which at least means that we need to be cautious of "left-wing young people will save politics" narratives but also while the are similarities the analysis to explain Brexit and Trump doesn't really work in continental Europe where this n shaped support is common for the far-right and the young, in particular, are voting for non-traditional parties (and, perhaps, never really worked in the US or UK either but made narrative sense). (I've mentioned before but it's perhaps a particularly acute comparison in Germany - is it basically like the 80s Greens breakthrough now the Greens are regular coalition partners? )

I wonder what happened to the beacon of social democracy, the SPD. Well, apart from Schröder taking people's pensions away a few decades ago.

The AfD does not, at least to me, to be a mere protest vote, but rather a return to a more nationalist "blut und boden" Germany. And while that might bring more autobahns and places for minorities to meet up in rather constricted or concentrated spaces for long term relationships, I would hate to see heirs of the OAS, the MSI and the NSDAP run middle-Europe.

But I think we need to realise that there is a reason for this, besides economic downturns. It actually is immigration. Europe is receiving the bulk of the poor, huddled masses, yearning not so much to be free as to create a career in a dual economy where your kebab shop or laundry also whitewashes someone's drug money.

To be honest, I never though AfD would ever gain much traction once the Syrian refugee crisis was ended with that twat Erdogan holding about a million of them hostage to pressure the EU into concessions. Yet here they are.

[Zanza]

I wonder what happened to the beacon of social democracy, the SPD. Well, apart from Schröder taking people's pensions away a few decades ago.

Their current leader, chancellor Scholz, is extremely uncharismatic and seems not to care about the issues the country is facing. Also he protects tax cheating banksters. That said, the SPD is the most conservative party right now, trying to preserve the status quo while pushing some minor reforms here and there. Kind of Merkel's true heirs. The nominal conservatives are reactionary or radical in their ideas.

But their coalition with Liberals and Greens is now extremely fragile as there is lots of distrust and each party fights for its own survival, also at the cost of the other coalition partners.

The current government has some good policies in my opinion, especially on civil liberties. But they fail in economic policy and Clinton's statement is true here too. Germany is now the sick man of Europe again with a stagnant or even receding economy, potentially similar to Italy in the last thirty years. And the current government does not seem to find measures against this.

They also utterly suck at communicating their successes.

But I think we need to realise that there is a reason for this, besides economic downturns. It actually is immigration. Europe is receiving the bulk of the poor, huddled masses, yearning not so much to be free as to create a career in a dual economy where your kebab shop or laundry also whitewashes someone's drug money.

Immigration and related issues (terrorists, overburdened services, etc.) is of course one of the core reasons for their voters.

A related general issue is an unwillingness to pay for others (EU, Ukraine, foreign development aid, social state within Germany - at least for migrants) while at the same time there is a perception that public services are deteriorating.

There is also a segment of voters that distrust "the establishment", especially since the Corona curtailment of liberties.

The AfD is also very successful in organising public events on a local level, at using influencers to address young people on social media, etc. The are things traditional parties could do, but fail at, especially in the rural regions in the East.

But no idea what 15-20% of my compatriots see in them. I just find them disgusting.

[Admiral Yi]

Do you know any Ossis personally Zanza?