The Off Topic Topic

[Admiral Yi]

I've never considered cheddar to have any particular cachet.  It's a process, yeah?

Absolutely I think regions like Champagne and Cognac should have a right to those names.  (BTW, what does PDO stand for?)  Same with Kobe beef and Parmesan cheese.

Authentic Greek feta cheese I could not care less about.

[Jacob]

Sure, and some of those trying to cash in are makers of sparkling wines in the Champagne province of France.  The quality of protected champagne varies enormously.  You can pay US$54 for a bottle of 2002 Champagne champagne, or US$4,285, or anything in between.  The PDO doesn't seem to me to be a great indicator of quality.

Yup.

The question is who gets to cash in on the cachet built up around the term "Champagne". Should the Canadian producers of Baby Duck be able to do so or not? That's the core of the question.

Obviously opinions differ on the answer.

[Josquius]

I've never considered cheddar to have any particular cachet.  It's a process, yeah?

Absolutely I think regions like Champagne and Cognac should have a right to those names.  (BTW, what does PDO stand for?)  Same with Kobe beef and Parmesan cheese.

Authentic Greek feta cheese I could not care less about.

I've noticed an awful lot of wagyu in supermarkets here lately.
This strikes me as highly unlikely to be authentic. Sad it has no protection.

[Sheilbh]

I've never considered cheddar to have any particular cachet.  It's a process, yeah?

From Cheddar in Somerset - the cheese used to be stored in the caves of Cheddar gorge.

Absolutely I think regions like Champagne and Cognac should have a right to those names.  (BTW, what does PDO stand for?)  Same with Kobe beef and Parmesan cheese.

Protected designation of origin. Basically the entire product needs to be produced in a determined area and according to certain rules to get the name.

And you're right it's also definitely a big thing in Japan - not just with Wagyu beef but with certain misos, or pickles etc. Maybe elsewhere in East Asia too?

[Sheilbh]

I've noticed an awful lot of wagyu in supermarkets here lately.
This strikes me as highly unlikely to be authentic. Sad it has no protection.

I imagine it depends on the type but I know some types of wagyu are protected in Japan and, I think the EU-Japan and now UK-Japan trade deals include mutual recognition of PDOs.

[Jacob]

I've never considered cheddar to have any particular cachet.  It's a process, yeah?

I think the cachet around the word cheddar dissipated quite a while ago... which incidentally suggests the value in protecting the terms. Because if Baby Duck et. al. gets to call itself champagne, then I expect there'll be no cachet attached to "champagne" after a relatively short period.

Absolutely I think regions like Champagne and Cognac should have a right to those names.  (BTW, what does PDO stand for?)  Same with Kobe beef and Parmesan cheese.

Agreed, though I think the ship has sailed on Kobe... what with the abundance of "Kobe meatballs" (defeating the purpose entirely) etc.

Authentic Greek feta cheese I could not care less about.

Me neither, to be honest. But if the Greeks care, I don't mind.

[Josquius]

Checking up apparently wagyu is the name of a breed of cow and they're in North Yorkshire now.
Huh. I always thought it meant specifically cattle from Japan.didnt think they'd be so crap with their breed naming.

[Sheilbh]

Checking up apparently wagyu is the name of a breed of cow and they're in North Yorkshire now.
Huh. I always thought it meant specifically cattle from Japan.didnt think they'd be so crap with their breed naming.

Cheating

But I checked the UK register - I imagine the EU's the same - and these are the two protected wagyu beefs:

    宮崎牛 / Miyazaki Wagyu / Miyazaki Beef

    Protected food name with Protected Geographical Indication (PGI)
        Registered name: 宮崎牛 / Miyazaki Wagyu / Miyazaki Beef Status: Registered Country of origin: Japan Date registration: 1 January 2021
    鹿児島黒牛 / KAGOSHIMA WAGYU

    Protected food name with Protected Geographical Indication (PGI)
        Registered name: 鹿児島黒牛 / KAGOSHIMA WAGYU Status: Registered Country of origin: Japan Date registration: 1 January 2021

[Jacob]

And you're right it's also definitely a big thing in Japan - not just with Wagyu beef but with certain misos, or pickles etc. Maybe elsewhere in East Asia too?

"Local specialites" are defintiely a big deal in China as well, though of course it's a bit of the wild East out there in terms of counterfeit products and imitations and so on.

[Jacob]

I thought "wagyu" was the term for the category as whole, but then you have specific breeds/ regions like Kobe and Takayama and so forth.

[Admiral Yi]

Agreed, though I think the ship has sailed on Kobe... what with the abundance of "Kobe meatballs" (defeating the purpose entirely) etc.

The preparation has nothing to do with the quality of the beef.  You could mix Veuve Cliquot with Mountain Dew and it's still Champagne.

[Admiral Yi]

I thought "wagyu" was the term for the category as whole, but then you have specific breeds/ regions like Kobe and Takayama and so forth.

I'm pretty sure Kobe is a region.

[Jacob]

Agreed, though I think the ship has sailed on Kobe... what with the abundance of "Kobe meatballs" (defeating the purpose entirely) etc.

The preparation has nothing to do with the quality of the beef.  You could mix Veuve Cliquot with Mountain Dew and it's still Champagne.

For sure, but the whole point of wagyu is how the fat is distributed throughout meat, making it particularly tender and succulent. If you turn it into ground beef you're missing the entire point. But yup, it's still Kobe beef (or, in many cases "American Kobe beef"), no matter what you do to it 

[Barrister]

I thought "wagyu" was the term for the category as whole, but then you have specific breeds/ regions like Kobe and Takayama and so forth.

Kobe is essentially a PDO - it has a very specific meaning.

"Wagyu" is meant to imply Kobe-style beef, but it has no special defined meaning and in reality could be just about anything.

[Jacob]

I thought "wagyu" was the term for the category as whole, but then you have specific breeds/ regions like Kobe and Takayama and so forth.

I'm pretty sure Kobe is a region.

As is Takayama. But as I understand it, there are other factors (breed, feeding and husbandry standards) involved than just the location of the cattle.