The Off Topic Topic

[celedhring]

The Spanish national anthem has no official lyrics because no fucking way we could collectively agree on them.

The official Catalan anthem is literally (as in literally-literally, not how people often use literally) about kicking out Spaniards off the land. 

[Valmy]

Fitting that a European nationalist anthem is all about ethnic cleansing.

[Tamas]

The Polish anthem is FAR more upbeat than the Hungarian one.

The Hungarians main theme is around "this nation has been punished for past and future alike" and begging God to give us some good times for a change. The Polish one is at least as I understand more along the lines of "FU we are not going anywhere"

[Sheilbh]

Given, you know, everything and the tradition of rebel songs Ireland's national anthem is surprisingly non-specific about the Brits - plenty of hints and side-eye though:

Soldiers are we,
Whose lives are pledged to Ireland,
Some have come from a land beyond the wave,
Sworn to be free, no more our ancient sireland
Shall shelter the despot or the slave;
Tonight we man the Bearna Baoil
In Erin's cause come woe or weal,
'Mid cannon's roar and rifle's peal,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Due to a quirk in Rugby Union there is an all Ireland team covering the south and the north. Needless to say they've had lots of issues with anthems. But since 2008 they've had their own all-Ireland anthem (Ireland's Calling) which is exactly as anodyne/corporate as you'd expect of an anthem writtein in the 2000s

[Sheilbh]

The Polish anthem is FAR more upbeat than the Hungarian one.

The Hungarians main theme is around "this nation has been punished for past and future alike" and begging God to give us some good times for a change. The Polish one is at least as I understand more along the lines of "FU we are not going anywhere"

Ah. Just looked it up and I'm a huge fan of the verse in the Polish one where they (correctly) talk up Napoleon's example

We'll cross the Vistula, we'll cross the Warta,
We shall be Polish.
Bonaparte has given us the example
Of how we should prevail.

[celedhring]

Fitting that a European nationalist anthem is all about ethnic cleansing.

I mean, the excuse is that it's a song from the Thirty Years War, but I don't think they are fooling anyone, anymore, but themselves.

[HVC]

Fitting that a European nationalist anthem is all about ethnic cleansing.

I mean, the excuse is that it's a song from the Thirty Years War, but I don't think they are fooling anyone, anymore, but themselves.

And they still haven't kicked out the Spaniards? you'd think they wouldn't want to advertise how bad they are at it.

I like the Portuguese anthem. Theres a verse about being literal canon fodder.

[Barrister]

And your regular reminder that O Canada's English lyrics are deliberately anodyne, while French Canada's lyrics talk about wielding a sword and cross and "valour steeped in faith".

[The Larch]

Fitting that a European nationalist anthem is all about ethnic cleansing.

I mean, the excuse is that it's a song from the Thirty Years War, but I don't think they are fooling anyone, anymore, but themselves.

And they still haven't kicked out the Spaniards? you'd think they wouldn't want to advertise how bad they are at it.

Plot twist, it's actually a song celebrating a defeat. 

[celedhring]

Fitting that a European nationalist anthem is all about ethnic cleansing.

I mean, the excuse is that it's a song from the Thirty Years War, but I don't think they are fooling anyone, anymore, but themselves.

And they still haven't kicked out the Spaniards? you'd think they wouldn't want to advertise how bad they are at it.

I like the Portuguese anthem. Theres a verse about being literal canon fodder.

The event the song depicts ended very badly for Catalan interests. It's the start of the revolt that culminated with Catalonia declaring independence during the Thirty Years War, allying with France against Spain. France won, decided to keep the bits of Catalonia north of the Pyrenees, and returned the rest thankyouverymuch.

[DGuller]

I was always fond of the more literal translation of Ukraine's National Anthem "Ukraine is not yet dead".

That's the more accurate translation.  The word "vmerla" actually means "died", not "perished", and Ukrainian has a separate word for "perished".  Ukrainians would not be short of words for dying for the same reason that Eskimos would not be short of words for snow.

[Duque de Bragança]

I guess this will really confuse post-modern French leftists who see the Marseillaise as a right-wing symbol. 

Watering your fields with the impure blood of tyrants is now a right wing thing to do? Have the leftists all become monarchists now?

This very verse is most of the times completely miscontrued. Sang impur for them has a racist connotation.

Seriously? That is very creative. I guess I just presumed Sang Impur was a moral judgement not based on some racial pseudo-science which I don't think was even in existence in the late 18th century. Or that at that time the fact that the monarchs all came from the international king club meant their blood was insufficiently French or something. Huh.

How right-wing of you.  From a Medipart blog (very leftist)

https://blogs.mediapart.fr/rouget-de-marseille/blog/180818/faut-il-faire-evoluer-la-marseillaise

Un hymne qui répond à du racisme, sans intention raciste, mais avec la même expression

C'est pourquoi, sans accuser Rouget de Lisle ou la Révolution de volonté raciste, mais sachant combien cette expression de « sang impur » - qui ne pourrait plus être écrite de nos jours sous peine de condamnation - est aujourd'hui raciste, beaucoup de Français ont critiqué cet hymne, et demandé le changement de ses paroles. Ainsi l'association « Pour une Marseillaise de la Fraternité », qui, avec le soutien de nombreuses personnalités dont l'abbé Pierre, a lancé un concours en 1990, et a recueilli plus de 300 versions.

There is a lot more, if you have time to lose.

I can't help but think that some now forgotten conventions of French poetry i.e inversions or transfers of genitives from one verse to another play a role as well, as alluded in some articles.

[Barrister]

I was always fond of the more literal translation of Ukraine's National Anthem "Ukraine is not yet dead".

That's the more accurate translation.  The word "vmerla" actually means "died", not "perished", and Ukrainian has a separate word for "perished".  Ukrainians would not be short of words for dying for the same reason that Eskimos would not be short of words for snow.

Okay, so while I took a continuing Ed course on intro Ukrainian 25+ years ago, I'm not exactly fluent...

But my understanding is that yes, "Ukraine is not yet dead" is the literal translation of the words, but that something akin to Sheilbh's translation more accurately captures the meaning of the first two lines.

Because otherwise it just brings to mind that one scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdf5EXo6I68

[Duque de Bragança]

Fitting that a European nationalist anthem is all about ethnic cleansing.

I mean, the excuse is that it's a song from the Thirty Years War, but I don't think they are fooling anyone, anymore, but themselves.

And they still haven't kicked out the Spaniards? you'd think they wouldn't want to advertise how bad they are at it.

I like the Portuguese anthem. Theres a verse about being literal canon fodder.

You can replace canhões by any enemy ending in ões e.g Bretões. Very practical. In 1890, that would have been the Brits over the colonial question in Africa.

[Grey Fox]

And your regular reminder that O Canada's English lyrics are deliberately anodyne, while French Canada's lyrics talk about wielding a sword and cross and "valour steeped in faith".

and winning glory to wear on our heads.

In English, we do the guarding. In French, faith does the guarding.

I love the Canadian anthem.