The Off Topic Topic

[The Larch]

To be fair the Home Office didn't say she had dual citizenship, they just said "yes our law said we cannot make anyone stateless, but she has the option to request another citizenship instead to avoid being stateless so that's good enough for us". Which is quite iffy. It equals to "yeah legally we couldnt' do this, but whatever, she is a bitch".

It's quite the can of worms, yeah. I don't remember where (Twitter, maybe?) I read somebody being facetious about the topic, saying that if that argument was accepted, it'd be precedent to, for instance, revoking every jewish Brit of their UK citizenship because after all they could all get Israeli citizenship if they wanted, so they wouldn't be stateless either.

[fromtia]

If the Bangladeshis aren't having it, then it's not going to stick. Javid is going to do an embarrassing climbdown or lose in the courts. 

Well I'll assume she's going to come home at some point then after her "gap year"*


* - hilarious Tamas. 

[Josquius]

What should have been done years ago is to declare that anyone who joins ISIS willingly will lose their citizenship. Then anyone going there after said declaration should be stripped.

Trouble is that would amount to recognising IS as a valid state since you can't make someone stateless.

The girl's situation is murkier than that, I believe. I don't think it's been confirmed if she has Bangladeshi citizenship, only that the British government claims that, because she's of Bangladeshi heritage she can get citizenship there, so they're not making her stateless, which I believe is forbidden by international law, so they're grasping at a potentiality rather than a reality.

In any case she apparently has zero personal connection to Bangladesh, as she was born in the UK and has never been to Bangladesh. Then there's the fact that she had a baby while she still had British citizenship, so I don't know if the baby would be British in that case and she could get to stay with him in the UK even if she's not a British citizen. On top of that is the fact that she went to Syria when she was 15, a minor, so it could be debatable to which degree she'd responsible for her actions in that situation.

In any case, my gut feeling in this case is that the British government decision has acted in a really shitty way. Proper thing, IMO, would be to repatriate her, put her on trial for whatever charge applies (aiding and abetting the enemy, treason, whatever), with the caveat that she was a minor at the time and make sure that the kid is properly taken care of by family or social services. Stripping her citizenship and washing its hands is like dereliction of duty, you just can't get rid of a troublesome citizenship by resorting to this kind of stuff. If she's your citizen and is liable to anything, take care of the situation yourself, don't dump it on others or create a legal mess that will entangle you for a while. If UK law allows for the removal of citizenship, my opinion is that it should be decided by a judge, not by a government minister, and after proper legal procedures, not by decree. Can somebody clarify who in the UK has the legal power to award or rescind citizenship?

TBF, I haven't read any of her interviews or read her opinions, so I have no idea to which degree her lack of remorse would affect all this or what's her degree of loyalty to ISIS, but in any case I think that's a bit besides the point.

The UK's case I believe is that Bangladeshi law states since her mother is Bangladeshi she is automatically so, even though she never registered with them or anything.

On the kid, yep, he is entitled to British citizenship, and Dutch.
I think one thing that is being forgotten in all this and should be a government's priority in this whole thing is getting hold of the kid and putting him with a decent family  in the UK or Netherlands.
The mother may be a crazy evil bitch who would be a danger to the country, but the baby isn't beyond hope.

And yeah....it all rather stinks of the government trying to prove their far right credentials amidst the brexit mess. Appealing to the sort of unthinking cunt who would have no problem with breaking international law and making people stateless. Hell, many of them would like that this be done even with people who have done nought wrong.

It's quite the can of worms, yeah. I don't remember where (Twitter, maybe?) I read somebody being facetious about the topic, saying that if that argument was accepted, it'd be precedent to, for instance, revoking every jewish Brit of their UK citizenship because after all they could all get Israeli citizenship if they wanted, so they wouldn't be stateless either.

Wasn't this literally the Nazi plan at one point pre final solution with their Madagascan Israel insanity?

[The Larch]

It's quite the can of worms, yeah. I don't remember where (Twitter, maybe?) I read somebody being facetious about the topic, saying that if that argument was accepted, it'd be precedent to, for instance, revoking every jewish Brit of their UK citizenship because after all they could all get Israeli citizenship if they wanted, so they wouldn't be stateless either.

Wasn't this literally the Nazi plan at one point pre final solution with their Madagascan Israel insanity?

The Nazis did enact legislation to strip "undesireables" of German citizenship back in 1933, and used it agains 130000 jews that had acquired German citizenship during the Weimar era. Afterwards in 1935, as part of the Nuremberg laws, all jews were excluded from the Reich's citizenship laws, as those only applied to those of "German blood". From then on jews were classified as "state subjects" rather than citizens.

[Savonarola]

It's quite the can of worms, yeah. I don't remember where (Twitter, maybe?) I read somebody being facetious about the topic, saying that if that argument was accepted, it'd be precedent to, for instance, revoking every jewish Brit of their UK citizenship because after all they could all get Israeli citizenship if they wanted, so they wouldn't be stateless either.

Wasn't this literally the Nazi plan at one point pre final solution with their Madagascan Israel insanity?

Long before that; the Madagascar Plan wasn't announced until 1940; (though I see from Wikipedia the plan was first formulated in 1938.)

[Admiral Yi]

Is a person stateless if their allegiance is to a(n Islamic) state which no one recognizes?

[Richard Hakluyt]

Another obvious cockup by a government minister; just imagine if they formed a raid team in world of warcraft, one could probably solo them in pvp.

[dps]

Is a person stateless if their allegiance is to a(n Islamic) state which no one recognizes?

Under international law, as best as I understand it, legally they would retain whatever prior citizenship they held.

[crazy canuck]

Another obvious cockup by a government minister; just imagine if they formed a raid team in world of warcraft, one could probably solo them in pvp.

Forming a raid requires a fair amount of cooperation and planning.  They would be throwing their monitors out the window in frustration that they cannot form a raid team of 1.

[Oexmelin]

Hate map of the USA, by the SPLC:

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

[Admiral Yi]

Their work would be a lot more useful if it focused on number of members and intensity of feeling/extremeness of positions, that kind of thing, instead of simply number of unique group names.  As it is I think it's kind of click bait for the left.  But I suppose they're doing what they think they're capable of.

[crazy canuck]

Their work would be a lot more useful if it focused on number of members and intensity of feeling/extremeness of positions, that kind of thing, instead of simply number of unique group names.  As it is I think it's kind of click bait for the left.  But I suppose they're doing what they think they're capable of.

You are just one click away from the content they are measuring

"All non-White immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Whites currently residing in America be required to leave the nation forthwith and return to their land of origin: peacefully or by force."
— "25 Points of American National Socialism," NSM website

"When ... you take a German Shepherd and mix him with a Golden Retriever you have a worthless animal that nobody wants and that isn't worth anything if you're trying to breed him or sell him. ... [T]hese degenerates that allow their children to race mix and this sort of thing, they're destroying the bloodlines of both races."
— NSM leader Jeff Schoep, July 25, 2007, interview

"I do not see the niggers, homosexuals, mexicans, jews, or even child molesters ashamed or afraid to speak their minds and rally, march, post, and be activists for their sick cause. And too many brave men and women died to give me the chance to fight now. I will honor their blood and fight for soil."
— Prominent NSM member J.T. Ready, in a June 15, 2008, blog post

[Habbaku]

  Do American-Indians count as White?

[crazy canuck]

I have started following Warren on Instagram to get a sense of what a Presidential hopeful does these days to win the primaries.  The early result - have loads of energy and expend it every day.  Not sure how people survive that kind of grind.

[Oexmelin]

Their work would be a lot more useful if it focused on number of members and intensity of feeling/extremeness of positions, that kind of thing, instead of simply number of unique group names.  As it is I think it's kind of click bait for the left.  But I suppose they're doing what they think they're capable of.

As CC mentioned, just click on the name. Their whole schtick is compiling dossiers.