The Off Topic Topic

[Ed Anger]

When they drained me back in '15, I had a fluid shift and I almost died.

[Razgovory]

Well, he had another stroke, some is wrong with his heart.  I forget the word.  So they sent him up the University Hospital this evening.  Wait, I think I remember the word.  Aneurysm.  Don't know what they are going to do yet.

[CountDeMoney]

Dude, your Dad is Unbreakable.

[11B4V]

Is someone from Frankfurt called a Frankfurter?

[Habbaku]

Is someone from Frankfurt called a Frankfurter?

Yep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_adjectivals_and_demonyms_for_cities

[Razgovory]

Well, what do you know, the correct term for someone from Philadelphia is "Dickhead".

[celedhring]

We are having a rather high-profile trial in Spain these days; a gang-rape committed by a pack (literally, they named themselves "The Pack") of drunken louts during the San Fermín festivities.

The defense attorney made his final plea today: "the defendants may seem imbeciles, oafish, childish, feeble-minded or primal in their thoughts, but they are good boys".

He doesn't seem very confident.

[Malthus]

We are having a rather high-profile trial in Spain these days; a gang-rape committed by a pack (literally, they named themselves "The Pack") of drunken louts during the San Fermín festivities.

The defense attorney made his final plea today: "the defendants may seem imbeciles, oafish, childish, feeble-minded or primal in their thoughts, but they are good boys".

He doesn't seem very confident.

So much for their character - what's the actual defense consist of? Do they have any?

[Habbaku]

We are having a rather high-profile trial in Spain these days; a gang-rape committed by a pack (literally, they named themselves "The Pack") of drunken louts during the San Fermín festivities.

The defense attorney made his final plea today: "the defendants may seem imbeciles, oafish, childish, feeble-minded or primal in their thoughts, but they are good boys".

He doesn't seem very confident.

So much for their character - what's the actual defense consist of? Do they have any?

Sounds like he's going for the "It was only light rape" defense.

[celedhring]

We are having a rather high-profile trial in Spain these days; a gang-rape committed by a pack (literally, they named themselves "The Pack") of drunken louts during the San Fermín festivities.

The defense attorney made his final plea today: "the defendants may seem imbeciles, oafish, childish, feeble-minded or primal in their thoughts, but they are good boys".

He doesn't seem very confident.

So much for their character - what's the actual defense consist of? Do they have any?

Sounds like he's going for the "It was only light rape" defense.

Yeah, that's what I'm hearing from legal experts around here. The perps claim it was consensual, and most of the evidence introduced by the defence is that the victim has acted normally since then.

Of course the dudes are so smart that they shot a video of the rape and then robbed her, too.

[Malthus]

Yeah, that's what I'm hearing from legal experts around here. The perps claim it was consensual, and most of the evidence introduced by the defence is that the victim has acted normally since then.

Of course the dudes are so smart that they shot a video of the rape and then robbed her, too.

Sounds like 'guilty as hell, with a side order of guilty'.

I do feel somewhat sorry for defense lawyers in cases like this. I mean, someone has to represent these - accused persons. It must be tough to play a hand with absolutely no cards in it. Presumably this went to trial because the prosecution had zero reason to make any deals ... but it is just plain embarrassing, not to mention arguably unethical, to make lame bullshit arguments that have no chance of success (around here we call them "paper baggers" in the lingo - it means when you are in a position where someone is pressuring you to make an argument that has so little legitimacy, you wish you were wearing a paper bag over your head when making them.) 

I do some commercial litigation and that very rarely happens in that world - if your hand has no cards, you settle; plus, counsel are obligated to advance every argument to help their client - but are not obligated to waste the court's time with bullshit, or to harm their own professional reputations by doing so.   

[Valmy]

Of course the dudes are so smart that they shot a video of the rape and then robbed her, too.

That is what good boys do right?

[garbon]

Yeah, that's what I'm hearing from legal experts around here. The perps claim it was consensual, and most of the evidence introduced by the defence is that the victim has acted normally since then.

Of course the dudes are so smart that they shot a video of the rape and then robbed her, too.

Sounds like 'guilty as hell, with a side order of guilty'.

I do feel somewhat sorry for defense lawyers in cases like this. I mean, someone has to represent these - accused persons. It must be tough to play a hand with absolutely no cards in it. Presumably this went to trial because the prosecution had zero reason to make any deals ... but it is just plain embarrassing, not to mention arguably unethical, to make lame bullshit arguments that have no chance of success (around here we call them "paper baggers" in the lingo - it means when you are in a position where someone is pressuring you to make an argument that has so little legitimacy, you wish you were wearing a paper bag over your head when making them.) 

I do some commercial litigation and that very rarely happens in that world - if your hand has no cards, you settle; plus, counsel are obligated to advance every argument to help their client - but are not obligated to waste the court's time with bullshit, or to harm their own professional reputations by doing so.   

What are the other course of action if no deal on table and your clients won't fold?

[celedhring]

Cases still go to trial even if there's a deal with the prosecutor in Spain (they are resolved quickly if there's no opposition to the deal). Nonetheless, there's none in place and the prosecutor is going all in,  asking for 22 years.

[Barrister]

Yeah, that's what I'm hearing from legal experts around here. The perps claim it was consensual, and most of the evidence introduced by the defence is that the victim has acted normally since then.

Of course the dudes are so smart that they shot a video of the rape and then robbed her, too.

Sounds like 'guilty as hell, with a side order of guilty'.

I do feel somewhat sorry for defense lawyers in cases like this. I mean, someone has to represent these - accused persons. It must be tough to play a hand with absolutely no cards in it. Presumably this went to trial because the prosecution had zero reason to make any deals ... but it is just plain embarrassing, not to mention arguably unethical, to make lame bullshit arguments that have no chance of success (around here we call them "paper baggers" in the lingo - it means when you are in a position where someone is pressuring you to make an argument that has so little legitimacy, you wish you were wearing a paper bag over your head when making them.) 

I do some commercial litigation and that very rarely happens in that world - if your hand has no cards, you settle; plus, counsel are obligated to advance every argument to help their client - but are not obligated to waste the court's time with bullshit, or to harm their own professional reputations by doing so.   

What are the other course of action if no deal on table and your clients won't fold?

You hold the prosecution to their burden.  You say "The state must prove every element beyond a reasonable doubt", and argue there's a reasonable doubt about some element of it.