The Off Topic Topic

[garbon]

Yeah, survivalist shit is for the crazies.

[Oexmelin]

Of course, but crazy survivalists are just one incarnation of it. It's fear of certain streets, fear of certain other streets after dark; fear of certain neighborhood, fear of catching a stray bullet, fear of losing out in the race by having your kids in the wrong school. It's fear of anger, because one never knows if that angry dude is going to flip out and randomly shoot others; fear of strangers, because they may be armed; fear of black men because they may be drugged, or armed, or rapists, or all three; fear of the homeless because they may be drugged, or armed, or rapists, or black; fear of public transportation, because there are black men and homeless men in it; fear of losing your job, because there is no welfare network;  fear of being sick, because you don't have benefits; fear of messing up, because the margin of error is increasingly small, and there are some fucked-up Mono people to celebrate it; fear of being stopped by the police for a random offense; fear of offending the police; fear of the Arabs, because they may be terrorists, fear of Mexicans, for they are stealing jobs; fear of government, fear of the outside world; fear of sin and sinners and unbelievers; fear to have your guns taken away, or your liberty, or your possessions. The besieged mentality is contagious, and to answer it, people flock to guns, to the suburbs, to people who think like they do, to be reassured. So much fear, poorly concealed by a sort of macho bravado or sociopathic libertarianism or a fatalistic outlook that this not only how things are, but how they are *supposed* to be. 

[garbon]

Yes, you managed to list many types of fears. Many of which are not limited to Americans or even the driving forces of many Americans.

After all, I might be afraid of the police but that isn't a guiding principle in my life.

My recommendation, leave that cesspool state and you'll start to feel better.

[Razgovory]

I admit, I often buy food because of my mortal terror of sending kids to the wrong school.

[Oexmelin]

Yes, you managed to list many types of fears. Many of which are not limited to Americans or even the driving forces of many Americans.

No, they are not limited to Americans, and no they are not the driving forces of many Americans. And I am sure that other people in other countries feel all sorts of other fears. I am certain you could compare the USA with a Syrian war zone and come with a reassuring sense of superiority in American institutions. And I am sure that for people who grew up in affluent suburbs with a sure sense of their own superiority, their anxieties over status are just on par with similar anxieties within similar people everywhere. In Europe, a lot of that fear fuels xenophobia. In the US, it fuels racism, systematic or not. But there are ways in which fear, in the US, is *normalized*, in ways that exacerbates social inequalities.

You are, of course, free to disagree, but since we've reached the advice-giving part of the evening, I'd suggest you stop extrapolating every social issue from your own personal experience.

[dps]

Of course, but crazy survivalists are just one incarnation of it. It's fear of certain streets, fear of certain other streets after dark; fear of certain neighborhood, fear of catching a stray bullet, fear of losing out in the race by having your kids in the wrong school. It's fear of anger, because one never knows if that angry dude is going to flip out and randomly shoot others; fear of strangers, because they may be armed; fear of black men because they may be drugged, or armed, or rapists, or all three; fear of the homeless because they may be drugged, or armed, or rapists, or black; fear of public transportation, because there are black men and homeless men in it; fear of losing your job, because there is no welfare network;  fear of being sick, because you don't have benefits; fear of messing up, because the margin of error is increasingly small, and there are some fucked-up Mono people to celebrate it; fear of being stopped by the police for a random offense; fear of offending the police; fear of the Arabs, because they may be terrorists, fear of Mexicans, for they are stealing jobs; fear of government, fear of the outside world; fear of sin and sinners and unbelievers; fear to have your guns taken away, or your liberty, or your possessions. The besieged mentality is contagious, and to answer it, people flock to guns, to the suburbs, to people who think like they do, to be reassured. So much fear, poorly concealed by a sort of macho bravado or sociopathic libertarianism or a fatalistic outlook that this not only how things are, but how they are *supposed* to be. 

The only thing on that list I'm afraid of is being sick, but it's not because I don't have benefits, it's because being sick sucks.  And moving to the suburbs or owning a gun wouldn't change that.

I'm also afraid of heights, but I don't think moving to the suburbs or owning a gun would help with that, either.

[garbon]

Yes, you managed to list many types of fears. Many of which are not limited to Americans or even the driving forces of many Americans.

No, they are not limited to Americans, and no they are not the driving forces of many Americans. And I am sure that other people in other countries feel all sorts of other fears. I am certain you could compare the USA with a Syrian war zone and come with a reassuring sense of superiority in American institutions. And I am sure that for people who grew up in affluent suburbs with a sure sense of their own superiority, their anxieties over status are just on par with similar anxieties within similar people everywhere. In Europe, a lot of that fear fuels xenophobia. In the US, it fuels racism, systematic or not. But there are ways in which fear, in the US, is *normalized*, in ways that exacerbates social inequalities.

You are, of course, free to disagree, but since we've reached the advice-giving part of the evening, I'd suggest you stop extrapolating every social issue from your own personal experience.

But that's exactly what you and your big smug ass is doing. You are extrapolating from what you've read about and some conversations you've had to create this thesis that Americans run around driven by fear. I mean, you even made the lame ass comparison of comparing the US to Syria. The obvious and clear example would have been US to UK where you wouldn't see the two nations acting all that differently on very similar issues also most definitely leading to inequalities. Perhaps it is just to hard for you to actually look at the facts rather just on emotions as you posit them to be?

I agree with you though, probably no use in this discussion. I do wonder though why you don't get out of my country though. Doesn't seem to suit you.

[Oexmelin]

Perhaps it is just to hard for you to actually look at the facts rather just on emotions as you posit them to be?

Amazingly enough, if I need to have a scholarly discussion about the social construction of fear, its role in the mass media, and produce a rigorous analysis of international comparison, Languish is not my primary choice for a publication venue. I post things like this here, precisely because they are impressions formed from reading French, Canadian, and American media, and because I am pretty sure some people here will disagree with me, and that, maybe my impressions are wrong. But I keep hoping against hope that disagreements about American society will go beyond simple assertions "well, it happens everywhere" / "America is special" / "It's not like that in the best parts of the country" - which I precisely tried to preempt with the Syrian comparison. So, yeah, if you have any impression that the normalization of fear in the UK is exactly the same as the US, please, chime in. Or propose something else. Or just continue to bitch.

I do wonder though why you don't get out of my country though. Doesn't seem to suit you.

I am not in the UK.

[garbon]

Amazingly enough, if I need to have a scholarly discussion about the social construction of fear, its role in the mass media, and produce a rigorous analysis of international comparison, Languish is not my primary choice for a publication venue. I post things like this here, precisely because they are impressions formed from reading French, Canadian, and American media, and because I am pretty sure some people here will disagree with me, and that, maybe my impressions are wrong. But I keep hoping against hope that disagreements about American society will go beyond simple assertions "well, it happens everywhere" / "America is special" / "It's not like that in the best parts of the country" - which I precisely tried to preempt with the Syrian comparison. So, yeah, if you have any impression that the normalization of fear in the UK is exactly the same as the US, please, chime in. Or propose something else. Or just continue to bitch.

Ah you want to head off arguments that aren't being made? I also don't know how you thought a Syria comparison would do that?

Why don't you cut out the reductionist nonsense about how minorities have their lives driven by their fears of police? Well not all minorities, of course. You know just those minorities.

If you want to make an actual argument rather than just listing a bunch of fears with an ending statement that America is especially good at turning those fears inequalities then why don't you make the argument? Claims aren't an argument. But then, of course, you aren't here for a discussion as you've so eloquently said yourself. Just hoping to take a shit, I guess.

I am not in the UK.

And as you know, I ain't from the UK. I've only got one nationality.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah, survivalist shit is for the crazies.

I used to think that, too.  Then I saw the electrical grid from the inside.

[Ed Anger]

I'd let seedy eat my MRE.

Wait, that sounds dirty.

[PDH]

Since I moved out here I have no more fear.  I live in paradise...with a couple of thousand homeless running around, but that is ok.

[Syt]

The constant level of fear normalized, in the USA, is astonishing.

We posted a team photo on Facebook, and a network membe rin the U.S. asked if it was true that it's very dangerous to live in Europe. 

[CountDeMoney]

I'd let seedy eat my MRE.

Wait, that sounds dirty.

I know of a paradise where there is enough Cipro and Tamiflu to last a long time.  And shotguns.

[garbon]

The constant level of fear normalized, in the USA, is astonishing.

We posted a team photo on Facebook, and a network membe rin the U.S. asked if it was true that it's very dangerous to live in Europe. 

Well there is a lot of new coming out of Europe about terrorist attacks.