The Off Topic Topic

[grumbler]

http://www.factfiend.com/secret-tower-middle-london/

For several decades, the BT Tower, a 600 foot tall tower that had been featured in shows like Dr Who and was visited daily by hundreds, if not thousands of people, was officially considered a secret by the British Government and its location was classified.

If you're curious about why, it's because when the tower was first proposed in the 1950's it was conceived as a place to house vital microwave communication technology that could be used in the event of nuclear attack. As such, its official location was deemed top secret, despite the fact the tower itself, was for a time, the tallest and hence most visible structure in all of London.

In a bizarre twist, although the tower supposedly contained and housed equipment that would be absolutely critical in the event of Britain coming under nuclear attack, it also featured a revolving restaurant on its 32nd floor that was visited by millions of people over the years.

In fact, the tower was quite a tourist attraction, and although no branch of the government would ever confirm its existence, the tower was featured prominently in an episode of freaking Doctor Who in the 60's. We don't mean like it was featured in the background or something. It was a central location in the 4 episode mini-arc, and it contained an evil robotic computer that was trying to take over the entire world. That's the kind of shit that sticks in your mind, especially when you realise it has a freaking rotating restaurant glued to the top of it. However, even though everyone in London knew where exactly the tower was and could probably see it from their bathroom window as they pinched a loaf, because its location was protected under the Official Secrets Act, for decades no one from the government could legally acknowledge its existence.

It wasn't until 1993, almost half a century after the tower was proposed that the whole charade was ended when a British MP stood up in the middle of parliament and announced its existence under the protection of parliamentary privilege, which allows MPs to break the law, if they really need to. Kind of like Batman with more red tape and less punching.

Which doesn't change the fact that for several decades, one of the biggest buildings in London didn't appear on any maps in case the Russian's used them to figure out where it was.

This urban legend post-dates my time living in London, '82-84.  The Telcom Tower (as it was then known) was certainly on the maps; I lived only a few blocks away from it.

Maybe this guy was looking only for "BT Tower" when he looked at the past history?  The name has changed several times (most people were still calling it "Post Office Tower" when I was there).

[garbon]

http://www.factfiend.com/secret-tower-middle-london/

For several decades, the BT Tower, a 600 foot tall tower that had been featured in shows like Dr Who and was visited daily by hundreds, if not thousands of people, was officially considered a secret by the British Government and its location was classified.

If you're curious about why, it's because when the tower was first proposed in the 1950's it was conceived as a place to house vital microwave communication technology that could be used in the event of nuclear attack. As such, its official location was deemed top secret, despite the fact the tower itself, was for a time, the tallest and hence most visible structure in all of London.

In a bizarre twist, although the tower supposedly contained and housed equipment that would be absolutely critical in the event of Britain coming under nuclear attack, it also featured a revolving restaurant on its 32nd floor that was visited by millions of people over the years.

In fact, the tower was quite a tourist attraction, and although no branch of the government would ever confirm its existence, the tower was featured prominently in an episode of freaking Doctor Who in the 60's. We don't mean like it was featured in the background or something. It was a central location in the 4 episode mini-arc, and it contained an evil robotic computer that was trying to take over the entire world. That's the kind of shit that sticks in your mind, especially when you realise it has a freaking rotating restaurant glued to the top of it. However, even though everyone in London knew where exactly the tower was and could probably see it from their bathroom window as they pinched a loaf, because its location was protected under the Official Secrets Act, for decades no one from the government could legally acknowledge its existence.

It wasn't until 1993, almost half a century after the tower was proposed that the whole charade was ended when a British MP stood up in the middle of parliament and announced its existence under the protection of parliamentary privilege, which allows MPs to break the law, if they really need to. Kind of like Batman with more red tape and less punching.

Which doesn't change the fact that for several decades, one of the biggest buildings in London didn't appear on any maps in case the Russian's used them to figure out where it was.

This urban legend post-dates my time living in London, '82-84.  The Telcom Tower (as it was then known) was certainly on the maps; I lived only a few blocks away from it.

Maybe this guy was looking only for "BT Tower" when he looked at the past history?  The name has changed several times (most people were still calling it "Post Office Tower" when I was there).

Well there you go.

[garbon]

Wait a second.

http://home.bt.com/news/world-news/october-8-1965-the-bt-tower-britains-tallest-building-opens-in-london-11364009269376

Upon its completion, the tower was designated an official secret and did not appear on Ordnance Survey maps until after it was officially revealed in 1993 in the Houses of Parliament by MP Kate Hoey.

[DGuller]

Couple of hours ago a B17 flew over the house, at about 500ft. 

How many times did I tell them to fix the goddamn bomb bay on that thing, but no, it was fine, they know what they're doing, they told me. 

[grumbler]

Wait a second.

http://home.bt.com/news/world-news/october-8-1965-the-bt-tower-britains-tallest-building-opens-in-london-11364009269376

Upon its completion, the tower was designated an official secret and did not appear on Ordnance Survey maps until after it was officially revealed in 1993 in the Houses of Parliament by MP Kate Hoey.

It is true that Kate Hovey made that claim as part of her argument argument in Parliament that the British government (she was speaking from the Opposition benches) was absurdly overzealous on the matter of secrecy.  That was in 1993, however.  Prior to that, this secret was apparently unknown, including to the Ordnance Survey.  Apparently it was a very, very well-kept secret if the only person who knew it was an opposition MP many years later!

I am looking right now at a 1980 A_Z London Street map and the Telcom Tower/BT Tower is right where it is supposed to be.

[grumbler]

Couple of hours ago a B17 flew over the house, at about 500ft. 

How many times did I tell them to fix the goddamn bomb bay on that thing, but no, it was fine, they know what they're doing, they told me. 

[grumbler]

Oops, hit send on the second-to-last post too soon.  Here's Ms Hovey's claim:

This is a timely and necessary debate on an issue which demands urgent attention. I agree with the many hon. Members who have said that the apparently peculiarly British disease of obsessive secrecy must be cured urgently. It is time that our citizens had free access to information that affects all aspects of their lives and that we recognised that information is power. The Government are anxious to talk about real empowerment, but they have done little to implement it and seem keen to withhold it from our citizens.

Hon. Members have given examples of seemingly trivial information that remains officially secret. An example that has not been mentioned, but which is so trivial that it is worth mentioning, is the absence of the British Telecom tower from Ordnance Survey maps. I hope that I am covered by parliamentary privilege when I reveal that the British Telecom tower does exist and that its address is 60 Cleveland street, London.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199293/cmhansrd/1993-02-19/Debate-5.html

As the wiki article on BT Tower notes, a British historian of the OS notes that this is untrue, in a 2016 article published by the Charles Close Society, which studies the OS maps.  I don't have access to the article itself.

[mongers]

Couple of hours ago a B17 flew over the house, at about 500ft. 

How many times did I tell them to fix the goddamn bomb bay on that thing, but no, it was fine, they know what they're doing, they told me. 

Yeah a good one. 

[CountDeMoney]

I saved two turtles today.  At the same time.  Eastern Box turtles.

Once in a while, it's usually one turtle; it's wandered into the street, and as you would expect, it usually won't make it unless somebody decides to help.  So, if conditions allow, I will stop and Do What's Right. 

So I'm in the far right lane of a your standard five lane model--two lanes one way, two lanes the other, and the middle as a turn.  I see Mr. Turtle on the white paint of the lane, sticking his neck out to check what's what before crossing the road.   I had already slowed down and committed to turn around when I notice another shell on the curb above him. I turn around, get into the center yellow lane, hit the emergency flashers, and go grab both turtles.   Looked like they were both heading the same direction, one turtle attempting to draft behind another.

Now shotgunning both barrels with turtle, I haul ass across five lanes, step over the guard rail, and place them about 10 feet away from the curb, right next to one another and facing the woods.  I have done my part.  (Turtles should always be taken across the street in the direction they are headed, as it's some sort of internal-mapping thing they do with territory.)

Aaaaaaaaaaand that's when I realized that Mr. Turtle must've actually have been a Miss Turtle, and that the 2nd turtle must have been a suitor in hot pursuit, as this is turtle fuck-fuck season.  So I pretty much facilitated turtle rape, as Miss Turtle was obviously attempting to escape from him, or die trying.

That was 3 hours ago.  I drove back--since it's only about 2 miles from my place--to see if they didn't wander back out into the street, and I saw nothing.  No squished shells or anything.  Which is good.  Miss Turtle will just have to suck it up and take that hot turtle soup injection, because they are a Threatened species.

[Josquius]

I've never seen one in the wild.

[mongers]

I saved two turtles today.  At the same time.  Eastern Box turtles.

Once in a while, it's usually one turtle; it's wandered into the street, and as you would expect, it usually won't make it unless somebody decides to help.  So, if conditions allow, I will stop and Do What's Right. 

So I'm in the far right lane of a your standard five lane model--two lanes one way, two lanes the other, and the middle as a turn.  I see Mr. Turtle on the white paint of the lane, sticking his neck out to check what's what before crossing the road.   I had already slowed down and committed to turn around when I notice another shell on the curb above him. I turn around, get into the center yellow lane, hit the emergency flashers, and go grab both turtles.   Looked like they were both heading the same direction, one turtle attempting to draft behind another.

Now shotgunning both barrels with turtle, I haul ass across five lanes, step over the guard rail, and place them about 10 feet away from the curb, right next to one another and facing the woods.  I have done my part.  (Turtles should always be taken across the street in the direction they are headed, as it's some sort of internal-mapping thing they do with territory.)

Aaaaaaaaaaand that's when I realized that Mr. Turtle must've actually have been a Miss Turtle, and that the 2nd turtle must have been a suitor in hot pursuit, as this is turtle fuck-fuck season.  So I pretty much facilitated turtle rape, as Miss Turtle was obviously attempting to escape from him, or die trying.

That was 3 hours ago.  I drove back--since it's only about 2 miles from my place--to see if they didn't wander back out into the street, and I saw nothing.  No squished shells or anything.  Which is good.  Miss Turtle will just have to suck it up and take that hot turtle soup injection, because they are a Threatened species.

Good work, Turtleman.

[CountDeMoney]

Turtle mortality rates in the eastern US have been a motherfucker.

[Tonitrus]

http://www.stripes.com/military-life/military-history/sparsely-attended-normandy-museum-selling-its-d-day-tanks-1.424705

(note: their site registration sucks...using Chrome's incognito window will defeat it)

Ed needs to head back to the vacation home and pick up an oversized lawn tractor. 

I want a Dragon Wagon. 

[CountDeMoney]

The Normandy Tank Museum is selling its entire collection at auction next month before closing its doors because it failed to attract enough visitors.

Location, location, location.

[Hamilcar]

I saved two turtles today.  At the same time.  Eastern Box turtles.

Once in a while, it's usually one turtle; it's wandered into the street, and as you would expect, it usually won't make it unless somebody decides to help.  So, if conditions allow, I will stop and Do What's Right. 

So I'm in the far right lane of a your standard five lane model--two lanes one way, two lanes the other, and the middle as a turn.  I see Mr. Turtle on the white paint of the lane, sticking his neck out to check what's what before crossing the road.   I had already slowed down and committed to turn around when I notice another shell on the curb above him. I turn around, get into the center yellow lane, hit the emergency flashers, and go grab both turtles.   Looked like they were both heading the same direction, one turtle attempting to draft behind another.

Now shotgunning both barrels with turtle, I haul ass across five lanes, step over the guard rail, and place them about 10 feet away from the curb, right next to one another and facing the woods.  I have done my part.  (Turtles should always be taken across the street in the direction they are headed, as it's some sort of internal-mapping thing they do with territory.)

Aaaaaaaaaaand that's when I realized that Mr. Turtle must've actually have been a Miss Turtle, and that the 2nd turtle must have been a suitor in hot pursuit, as this is turtle fuck-fuck season.  So I pretty much facilitated turtle rape, as Miss Turtle was obviously attempting to escape from him, or die trying.

That was 3 hours ago.  I drove back--since it's only about 2 miles from my place--to see if they didn't wander back out into the street, and I saw nothing.  No squished shells or anything.  Which is good.  Miss Turtle will just have to suck it up and take that hot turtle soup injection, because they are a Threatened species.

Thank you for saving them.